UPDATE: Ancient Dragon Stats

[Manga]

These changes will be patched out before Ancients go to live and I thank you for all your feedback so far.

Inate Base Stats Boosts

Flight Height of 2000 max
Flight Speed of 85 *new
Health +250 *new
Power +75
Strength +50
Focus +15

New Passive Abilities

Drulkar's Scales 133% Armor
Dimensional Mastery I +500 Capacity
Drulkar's Wing's Fly Speed Increase *removed
Breath of Flame Burst I - Area of Effect Flame Breath Attack *damage increased


*NOTE: The fly sprint would of given +50 flyspeed for 20 seconds every 3 minutes. We worked out what that would make your average flyspeed if you used it exactly every time it was usable: 80.5. Since we need to remove it due to the difficulties of in-air usage of spells/items/abilities, we decided to make the Ancient flyspeed 85 to be a little generous.

[Helcat]

of course, there will be a +10 Rating penalty, right?

[Nayuaka]

These new stats are much better, thank you very much. :) (Yay got my hitpoint and flight speed increase)

[PJ]

I'm glad we all agree for once.

+10 rating it is.

[Helcat]

chrissakes you're right Kumu...

what was I thinking?


with that HP boost, the Rating penalty should be +50

[Helcat]

oh... and that Ancient head scale that must be returned before advancing to Ancient status? needs to be attunable upon receipt to avoid exploit....

[oluviel]

now i can smile when i reach ancient rather than shrug my shoulders and log out.

Whether it was due to the whining myself and others gave about the innitial rewards, or it was strictly from examining the quest and it's final rewards thank you.

[Fireclaw]

These changes will be patched out before Ancients go to live and I thank you for all your feedback so far.

Inate Base Stats Boosts

Flight Height of 2000 max
Flight Speed of 85 *new
Health +250 *new
Power +75
Strength +50
Focus +15

New Passive Abilities

Drulkar's Scales 133% Armor
Dimensional Mastery I +500 Capacity
Drulkar's Wing's Fly Speed Increase *removed
Breath of Flame Burst I - Area of Effect Flame Breath Attack *damage increased

Well, this is better than the previous posted reward. The increase to base flightspeed is very nice. In turning in the headscale we lose the +50 to primary stat and the 5% haste bonus. We lose the proc too, but its on the new crystal someone had a screenshot of so presumably we'd get that back. We get some modest new stats including extra health. So the real question is are these new stats worth the loss of the haste bonus and +50 to primary stat?

I don't really think so. I think these stats would put an ancient dragon on par in fighting ability with a same level adult, but not better. With the haste bonus an adult would still kill faster, but with the health bonus an ancient might last longer.

I'd be interested to see more information on Breath of Flame Burst I. What's its damage, recycle, range, area of effect? If it is very powerful, then it truly would make ancients better combatants than adults.

[imported_peladon]

To the Manga-god, or any other that might answer.

I have not spoken on this issue for many reasons. In essence, for me that which is and that which must be are but the challenges we face on the winds we follow. And there be those many that will hold me in despite for that speaking, and no doubt that despite be of True Flame, for I am but a Fool that doth walk among the Wise.

Yet a thing I have seen asked, and in my ignorance and lack of care I have missed the answer that came. Doth the gain of Armour ( 133%) be applied to the base armour of the drake that hath it, or the current armour of that draku?

And on the matter of crystals, the gem of Fangs and the gem of Primal. Is it that either Lunus or Helian may bear either, or be each attuned to each wind? And if that be not the Flame, then might it be that a draku might bear both at one time?

If the answers be not such that the wind may bear them at this time, then let my speaking be as though it never was, and let the winds speak of matters of more import. That the god have made this thing to be once more be enough for Sephiranoth. But well I know the little that Sephiranoth's delight doth matter to the world... and that be a proper thing.

[Goriax]

chrissakes you're right Kumu...

what was I thinking?


with that HP boost, the Rating penalty should be +50

Bipeds just don't get it.

You're funny. Dragons are maxxed out. Until new features come into the game they cannot advance at all regardless or rating. Once a level 100 dragondoes the AROP he's done as far as adventuring advancement goes. (to be precise, he has no use for further experience once he hits level 100 whether he's adult, ancient, or hatchling) BIPEDS can continue but dragons cannot. So until then

RATING DOESN'T MATTER FOR LEVEL 100 DRAGONS

Maybe some day they'll add some schools to allow some sort of alternate advancement and perhaps then it will matter, but who knows when that'll be. We've been waiting close to two years to do things bipeds could do from launch so I'm surenot going to hold my breath for this.

I'd be HAPPY to take a rating penalty if I could advance. Slow advancement is a whole lot better then no advancement.

But until then these stats are the final word on what dragons can become. Bipeds can continue to add schools and round out their characters. Dragons cannot.

Silly bipeds.

-----------------

Hmm I was so ticked off by bipeds trying to make comments about dragons when they know nothing about dragons thatI forgot the original post.

This is definately a step in the right direction. At least with this you're making me think about whether I"d gain more then I'd loose.

But meanwhile I'll continue to chuckle over bipeds who talk as if rating penalties matter to level 100 dragons. Makes me glad I went Lunus. Maybe the fact that I can chuckle instead of foam at the mouth is a good sign.

[PJ]

These bonuses are advancing you.

And if doesn't matter, why object to it? [;)]

[Fireclaw]

These bonuses are advancing you.

And if doesn't matter, why object to it? [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

Because with the advances comes a nerf. In losing the headscale we lose its 5% haste bonus. This makes it so ancient dragons don't hit as fast as adult dragons and thus actually kill slower than adult dragons. As such, the question is whether the bonuses outweigh the nerf. If not, then ancienthood is actually a step backwards in power.

[PJ]

From level 100 adult, not having started the ARoP, to level 100 ancient having finished the ARoP. You advance

You advance by the above stat gains, plus the previously discussed 2 new abilities (Rez and Mez) and 2 existing abilities upgrades. You are better then when you started. Signifigantly. That justifies a rating increase.

[Nayuaka]

You can give me a rating increase for all I care. Won't do much good. At level 100/100 I'm not going anywhere.

[PJ]

I'm not missing the point.

I took Beserker to Level 44 to master Battle Hardened I.

It gives a Passive +55 Health, and +62 Armor.

My character Improved. I didn't go up in level, but I received a +2 rating penalty for that.

Here, dragons have advanced, with a +33% base armor bonus, +250 health, not to mention several abilities and other minor stats.

There should be a rating penalty.

True it doesn't matter to a dragon who is currently level 100.

But the minimum requirement for the ARoP is 90, not 100. And eventually it would matter, whether via Ancient Schools, or a Level Cap raise.


*Edit* I'll spell it out for you: If it doesn't matter? Why object to it so vociferously?

[oluviel]

id say that's just your mistake for leveling an otherwise useless class

[Goriax]

Lets turn this around. so if this stat increase is worth a +10 rating? What would I get for a +100 rating? Hey, I want the stat increases which correspond to a +1000 rating and I'll HAPPILY take the rating penalty.

Because, biped ignorance aside. Rating means absolutely nothing once a dragon reaches level 100.


--------------------------


I again let myself get distracted by this rating idiocy.

I actually cameback just to thank the devs for listening and trying to be responsive. A faster sustained fly speed definately makes more sense then a sprint in the game as it stands today. Increases in health are always welcome. Maybe that cancels out the immediate nerf of loosing the haste and fangs of fury, especially if I go out and get the best head scale I can find.

I"m still upset about being shrunk to adult size and I'm still worried about loosing my no hoard fire breath though.

[Varangaard]

Getting back to the topic at hand, 250 more health and 133% armor boost sounds pretty ******** spiffy to me. My armor is closer to 2100 and with that bonus starts reaching upwards to 2700 or over. I'd call that some serious tanking ability for meleers and casters amogst us alike.

Loss of the ancient scale doesn't sound good, but if we get the crystal mentioned in another thread and it doesn't conflict with deadlands stones (I don't see why it should, there are no overlapping effects) the only thing we lose is the 5% haste. Which, with the biggest claw mastery (and assuming our delay is 30) means we go back to hitting once every 2,6 seconds instead of 2,47 (or 23 hits per minute instead of 24). Not much of a nerfage.

Ancient physical size, I'd like to grow huge as ancient as well, but I can see people not wanting me to block out a lot of stuff. If ancients and adults really are that close to each other in size, perhaps they should downsize adults to make the distinction clearer?

Lastly, I find the disparity in power and strength bonus a little curious. So far dragons have always had equal progression in both stats, why change now? Not that 25 difference in stats means more than a point or two in damage.

[Fireclaw]

From level 100 adult, not having started the ARoP, to level 100 ancient having finished the ARoP. You advance

You advance by the above stat gains, plus the previously discussed 2 new abilities (Rez and Mez) and 2 existing abilities upgrades. You are better then when you started. Signifigantly. That justifies a rating increase.

Wrong. you get the rez and mez without advancing to ancient. And even then due to their extreme hoard cost they aren't that useful. You do get some minimal stat gains when you advance to ancient, but at the same time you lose 50 to your primary attack stat and all your attacks hit 5% slower.

Thus, in combat ability, ancient does not appear to be an advance. Rather its a step back. A monster an adult could just barely handle an ancient might not be able to handle at all.

[Fireclaw]

I'm not missing the point.

I took Beserker to Level 44 to master Battle Hardened I.

It gives a Passive +55 Health, and +62 Armor.

My character Improved. I didn't go up in level, but I received a +2 rating penalty for that.

Here, dragons have advanced, with a +33% base armor bonus, +250 health, not to mention several abilities and other minor stats.

There should be a rating penalty.

True it doesn't matter to a dragon who is currently level 100.

But the minimum requirement for the ARoP is 90, not 100. And eventually it would matter, whether via Ancient Schools, or a Level Cap raise.


*Edit* I'll spell it out for you: If it doesn't matter? Why object to it so vociferously?

I don't care if they add a ratings penalty for ancient dragons. I'm level 100, I have zero use for experience. Rating means nothing for me. Experience from killing monsters means nothing to me since I am capped and it gives me nothing. Its meant nothing to me ever since I hit 100 over 16 months ago.

But since rating means nothing to dragons, adding a ratings penalty is not a good way to try to balance the game. And unlike a multiclassing biped, going ancient gives a real penalty to our combat ability. Also we appear to gain no armor. Its obvious the devs are trying to make the armor bonus from the ancient headscale innate to ancients. As such the armor gain in becoming ancient would be zero.