Blight Update - January 11, 2006

[Mandovar]

Sounds good to me.:-) Thanks David.:-)

[Dragoniade]

For reference, the effective storage space per cubic unit, with the new bulk limits, will be:

T1 storage: 25000 (25000/1)
T2 storage: 20000 (40000/2)
T3 storage: 13750 (55000/4)
T4 storage: 11667 (70000/6)
T5 storage: 10625 (85000/8)
T6 storage: 8833 (100000/12)

Obviously, my plan remains the same: only use T1 storage rooms as larger ones are effectively a waste of space.

edit: Higher tier storage rooms aren't exactly improving capacity either; I think this goes under the same category as tents being the most effective storage on biped plots. Anyway, here is the comparison list:

Hall: All halls have shrines and storage
T1 bulk 07200 Stack 060 (2x2x2) - 900 bulk 7,5 stack per cube
T2 bulk 14400 Stack 120 (2x2x2) - 1800 bulk 15 stack per cube
T3 bulk 21600 Stack 180 (3x2x3) - 1200 bulk 10 stack per cube
T4 bulk 28800 Stack 240 (3x2x3) - 1600 bulk 13,3 stack per cube
T5 bulk 36000 Stack 300 (3x3x3) - 1333,3 bulk 11,1 stack per cube
T6 bulk 43200 Stack 360 (3x3x3) - 1600 bulk 13,3 stack per cube

Lair: Storage
T1 bulk 02400 Stack 020 (2x2x1) - 600 bulk 5 stack per cube
T2 bulk 04800 Stack 040 (2x2x1) - 1200 bulk 10 stack per cube
T3 bulk 07200 Stack 060 (3x2x2) - 600 bulk 5 stack per cube
T4 bulk 09600 Stack 080 (3x2x2) - 800 bulk 6,7 stack per cube
T5 bulk 12000 Stack 100 (3x2x3) - 666,7 bulk 5,6 stack per cube
T6 bulk 14400 Stack 120 (3x2x3) - 800 bulk 6,7 stack per cube

Library: Storage (forms and techs)
T2 bulk 100 Stack 050 (2x1x1) - 50 bulk 25 stack per cube
T4 bulk 150 Stack 075 (2x1x1) - 75 bulk 37,5 stack per cube
T6 bulk 200 Stack 100 (2x1x1) - 100 bulk 50 stack per cube

Grand Hall: Storage and shrine
T6 bulk 60,000 Stack 360 (4x4x4) - 937,5 bulk 5,6 stack per cube

I've couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for the number proof that dragons get the shorts hand in storage. As silos goes up in tier, the bulk per surface on biped silo actually goes up, while the one for dragon actually goes down.

I don't call this 'fair' at all. They decreased the required units and it's good, but lets not forget that each unit take up to 3-4 more ressource to make. This decrase in required unit only covers that aspect. The bulk per cube still has to be fixed and brought to something close to the biped silo, without being clones.

Here'S a suggestion: Get rid of the Leveled silo.
Tier 1 Silo have 1 opening and take 2 cubic units
Tier 2 Silo have 1 opening and take 1 cubic units
Tier 3 Silo have 2 opening and take 2 cubic units
Tier 4 Silo have 2 opening and take 1 cubic units
Tier 5 Silo have 3 opening and take 2 cubic units
Tier 6 Silo have 3 opening and take 1 cubic units

That would still be an improvement over the current poor storage design. An increase reward with every tier, not a DECREASING reward.

[Dragoniade]

The value of this switch is debatable. But all in all it is an increases the bulk of the lowest tier silo which is what 95% of dragons are going to build anyway so its a win in that respect.

I originally planed to first start by building 2-3 Tier 1 or 2 silos, then upgrade them to Tier 4 or 5 silo when I would have gotten enough experience.

That was before those poorly designed storage got released.
While lairs look good in general, it's sad to see they offer no option for upgrade like Tulga implied quite some month ago.
Not only ALL rooms get bigger with each tier, contrarely to most plot building, you cannot remove a room if it break connections. This make upgrade impossible unless you put a loop into your lair somewhere.
They should allow player to remove and replace room during the planning, and only approves it at the very end, allowing player to remove rooms and replacing them by others, recreating the connectivity between thems.

[Rowr]

Looking at the plot preview items the new spirials are in there. If the current client wasn't so laggy I'd buy a lair to test them out.

[Guaran]

I'm glad to see the silos will now require less resources to build, and hold a little bit more.

One thing to remember, is that youneed corridors just to be able to access these. My first plan for level 0 looks something like this

????? <-- then a spiral in this corner to go down to the next level.
?ooo?o<-- 3 silos. other half of smelter room,one silo offsmelter rooms 2nd door
?ooo?<--- 3 more silos, smelter on this side, 3 way, main entrance area
?????

This basic layout netted me 7 silos, 1 t2 chamber. 10 corridor type chambers were also needed just to have a way to get to the silos. When considering silo resource requirements, you can't ignore the hallways that are also going to be needed.

The above plan is the cleanest, and easiest to navigate thru. Easy to find the way to the spiral to next lower level.

Then I redesigned it (something)like this, basically inverting it so the silos are replaced with 4 way corridors, and the silos are on the outside edges:

ooo<-- still left room here for the down spiral, off of the bend
o?????<-- still putting a smelter here, bend on the secondary smelter opening
o???? <--other half oft2 smelter. mighthave been horizontal in this plan
ooo?

This layout changed it to 9 silos (possibly 10), 8 corridors, and is about as efficient as a silo farm can be done, and left 3 units empty. Funny thing is, its harder to navigate. the 4 way corridors have rock going from the floor to the ceiling, and it's easy to get turned around.seriously, finding the exit was confusing at times. Now if the 4 way corridors came in a version that was more open... then it would become an open room area in the center part. I tore out this plan as well, decided to wait for the spirals to make a final decision.

Still alot of corridors needed for silo farms. pretty much 1 corridor per silo should be expected.

So factor that in when comparing dragon silos resource requirements, if trying to compare to normal plot silos. There really can't even be an apples to apples comparison.



For the rest of the chambers, and the high numbers of resource requirements, thepart of it that doesn't seem to make sense, is that we are mostly "excavating" dirt and rock, out of the ground. Kinda of like tunneling. Where do all the (applied)resources go? It doesn't really make sense, and I think was made artifically difficult since it's just 1 construction school instead of 5. (otherwise bipeds would be screaming at how easy it is in comparison).



To me this side of the argument doesn't hold that much weight. How much time does a biped spend leveling schools for all 5 classes, and then how much time doing the actual construction. if you say 1 plot (worth of construction)maybe it is equal. But do any more construction and the biped construction is way easier. Dragon construction may be a single school, but the actual building process is going to stay difficult no matter whether you build 1 lair or 20. It's never going to get easier (multiple resources, intermediate combines)



Lairs themselves I really like. The ones I've seen look really good. I like the NPC's (consignors, etc), and I plan to have a nicely built one someday. Be assured it's much much more of a grind than biped construction.And always will be.

[Dragoniade]

This layout changed it to 9 silos (possibly 10), 8 corridors, and is about as efficient as a silo farm can be done, and left 3 units empty. Funny thing is, its harder to navigate. the 4 way corridors have rock going from the floor to the ceiling, and it's easy to get turned around.seriously, finding the exit was confusing at times. Now if the 4 way corridors came in a version that was more open... then it would become an open room area in the center part. I tore out this plan as well, decided to wait for the spirals to make a final decision.

Still alot of corridors needed for silo farms. pretty much 1 corridor per silo should be expected.

So factor that in when comparing dragon silos resource requirements, if trying to compare to normal plot silos. There really can't even be an apples to apples comparison.


For the rest of the chambers, and the high numbers of resource requirements, thepart of it that doesn't seem to make sense, is that we are mostly "excavating" dirt and rock, out of the ground. Kinda of like tunneling. Where do all the (applied)resources go? It doesn't really make sense, and I think was made artifically difficult since it's just 1 construction school instead of 5. (otherwise bipeds would be screaming at how easy it is in comparison).

Yes. Because Storage Rooms have only 1 entrance, we waste a lot of space connecting them together. That's why I suggested to increase the amount of entrance for every tier. All other rooms are following that formula: Shop, halls, lairs get more entrance as the goes up in tier, but silo don't.

And lets not forget that, when building a plot farm, you don't need to worry at all about access. You have a silo you can't reach because it's in the middle of 12 others? No problem, just setscale those in the way, making silo farming even easier for plots. Too bad we can't setscale our room too.

I'm starting to wonder if TG have in mind "No farming for dragon whatsoever."

Lairs themselves I really like. The ones I've seen look really good. I like the NPC's (consignors, etc), and I plan to have a nicely built one someday. Be assured it's much much more of a grind than biped construction.And always will be.

When something is a grin and have at least a good reward, it put some ointment on the wound. But when you get both a grin and a poor reward, it's agravating.