PvP in the Horizons Universe

[Vlisson]

without discussion how it should work or how HZ would need to be rebalanced first!

Should there be PvP in HZ

[Tamaracaran]

I say no, THe game is not well enough balanced for it, and of all things, it is the one reason i am here, NO PVP!

[Vlisson]

yes HZ is not balanced for PvP atm

but i think it would be interesting to have an option to choose

So you could experience a new world, ok if someone has 50 ratings more then you then you have a problem ^^

[asdf]

Keeping in mind that the forums don't represent the entire game community. What I would like to see, however, is the shards develop more into their own. Chaos and Order could be 2 totally different worlds in 2 very different places. I know community stuff is that way, but it's still the same in some sense.

For instance, if the majority of Chaos supported PVP - why not introduce it. (just an example) Or ... for events ... if Order completes something in a certain fashion/timeframe/etc, then Order's next step would be diff than Chaos'.

[Peaches]

but not on order. ;(

[Salis]

I say NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Horizons is a family game. The community of Horizons is so much different from games like WOW and the other MMORPG.
We have whole families playing here. People with little kids. They came here because of the atmosphere on the shards. A place not filled with hormone crazed teens, ready to RoXoR you, and to be uberL33T.
A situation that in my opinion grew as part of there being no PvP
My greatest fear would be having us attracking the wrong players again.

Lore wise, I don't see the need for it. All races are united in there quest to rid Istaria from the Withered Aegis. Why would they need to war within themselves.

Currently we have one place: The Arena, where toons can test their powers against one another. Let that suffice. If you want PvP go play another game.
I say no PvP in Horizons.

Salis

[D0ZeR]

PVP if done right would bring in a lot more people. After all the original idea for HZ was all about pvp.

[asdf]

We have whole families playing here. People with little kids.

Well i just hope that the parents of these little kids realize the game is rated T for Teen. Which means (and i shudder at the thought sometimes) 13 years old and up is what this game is rated for.

At least that's what it says on the box w/ Artifact Entertainment's name on it. I don't think that rating would be affected though, simply from a buy out.

[Dravatar]

Blight would be against PvP, I'm fairly certain

[Takora Drakan]

NOOOOOOO!

I'm totally against PVP, if i would like pvp i had played WoW.

I dont want everytime to be slaughtered from a PK because he thinks its funny.

[Varangaard]

No.

One of the reasons I picked up Horizons is the no PvP aspect. In our Living versus Aegis struggle the concept of PvP is meaningless. Introducing PvP on other servers won't work either because the schools are not blanced for battling each other. Altering classes for PvP doesn't work because it will affect non-PvP play and will lead to cries of 'my class got nerfed due to those ******** PvPers'. Introducing PvP, changing classes for that and stuffing it on a separate server... well, that's another game we're talking then, not something that bears resemblance to Horizons.

[Vidken]

When EI mentioned PvP, it was for a completely seperate server.

Completely. Seperate. Server.

Being able to understand this concept, I voted yes.

For that seperate server.

[Aamer Khan]

I say NO.

One thing that drew many to Horizons in the first place was no PVP and no rampant cheating. To some PVP makes business sense, but to the VAST majority of players today, it is unwelcome and unwanted. And yes, I'm speaking for most. Deny that all you like, but after almost 3 years here, and being active in gathering view points from all sorts of players, I say that with confidence.

It's true that it could draw more players. But then it would not be Horizions anymore, but would be a very lame version of WOW.

And here is one more thing to think about...
To be able to balance PVP in ANY way, you would have to start completely over with your character. What we have currently would never work. Pit a ranger against a mage today and who will win???

[Nayal]

When EI mentioned PvP, it was for a completely seperate server.

Completely. Seperate. Server.

Being able to understand this concept, I voted yes.

For that seperate server.

PvP never ONLY affects the PvP servers. In order to institute PvP in any form, the multiclass system would have to be overhauled, or they risk outcries of "it's not fair" and "x multiclass build is way too strong" etc. There's just no way to have viable PvP the way multiclassing works currently. Do you honestly think class retuning and multiclass restrictions will remain only on the PvP server(s)? Also, every man hour spent developing and implementing a PvP system is a man hour that could/should have been spent adding to and developing the world that's already here. PvP alone does not draw large numbers of players. Ask anyone who's played EQ how well their PvP servers do..and how often a PvP "fix" has bled onto regular servers. WoW was hugely successful before they ever implemented their PvP system (other than duels, which they had in from launch), and once they did implement battlegrounds, class nerfs and "retuning" were right behind.

Statistically, PvP appeals to a very different crowd than the one attracted to, and currently playing, Horizons. This game, regardless of what the original vision was, has always had roots in building community cohesion and working together to fight back the Withered Aegis. We build each other's houses, we work together to build community structures, we band together to fight back the Aegis...where does "we decide to beat the crap out of each other" fit?

PvP would be the deathknell for the type of community we currently have, even if it were on different servers. Whether it would be more profitable or not isn't even clear. Those who want PvP aren't going to leave the games they're currently playing to come hang out in a game like Horizons and spend a few years adventuring and crafting to finally be "uber" when they can get the same results in a couple months in another game.

[Solanaceae]

Realistically, this whole discussion is probably a moot point, because apart from the whole balancing issues and the whole "pvp pwners vs omg carebears" argument, it boils down to the fact that the simulator software was not designed with PvP gameplay in mind.

Player synchronization at the moment with the current production code is terrible. Client draw times and draw distance suffer from very poor performance. In my opinion trying to get a viable PvP platform out of the current software would just be an exercise in frustration for players and developers alike. Maybe we can revisit this issue at some point in the future after improvements to the client and simulation code, but for the time being HZ is a PvE game.

[Vlisson]

EL mentioned that they wont make our servers PvP if we dont want it

but if all would vote yes then not only a seperate PvP server would go live

so all possibilities are open if we are interested =)

edit: im not interested in random pk when i craft or want to live in peace

but if i use the PvP emblem or another option then i choose to participate in PvP this is a different thing, you can live without pvp or try it. but nobody would be forced to do it

[Kwinn]

I say yes on a separate server. No balancing, no changes, no nothing. A new server with a free-for-all format. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

It WOULD generate additional income.
It WOULD keep some of the little idiots that populate Order and Chaos from time to time away. Remember Ruina?

So what if they have nasty attitudes and use abusive language. It's a PVP server, have at it kiddies!

So what if they post in forums in their little mindless drivel B-Net Brat Language. Are we soooo fragile that we cannot ignore them? Do we not have moderators?

So, I say HELL YES bring on a PVP Server. And use the money it generates to improve the game

[Tantalyr]

I say YES on a separate server, just as DANU has flatly stated it would be implented, if at all. That might well bring in more players, and more players means more money, and more money means growth for Horizons.

There have been two primary objections to the implementation of any form of PvP that I've seen posted here. The first is some notion that the entire multiclassing system would have to be done away with because classes are supposedly so out of balance. I'm not convinced of that at all.

On Order, Kwinn--with a rating of just over 200--is second only to Carinde on our server in being the most heavily multiclassed character, and is legendary in his hunting skills. A while ago he went to the Arena and fought Leviathan (f/k/a Skald), an Ancient dragon whose fighting skills are also legendary. The two of them fought to a twenty-minute draw, with neither being able to finish off the other. That tells me that Ancient dragons are pretty evenly balanced against even the most heavily multiclassed bipeds, so no overhaul is needed there.

Moreover, while it is true that a heavily multiclassed biped should wipe the floor against a single-classed biped, the "fix" is not to overhaul multiclassing. The simple and obvious "fix" is that the single-classed biped needs to multiclass if he/she wants to compete in PvP.

The other objection raised is that the PvP players will come over to Chaos or Order or Unity and trash-talk us, and challenge us to PvP them. Keep in mind, first, that the PvP player would have to roll a brand new character on our shards to do so. Do you honestly think a brand new level 5 Warrior is really going to challenge, say, a rating 120 adventurer/crafter to PvP in the Arena? If they're really that stupid, then I'll be happy to take them to the Arena and give them every death point they so anxiously desire.

And if you tire of the trash talk, keep remembering the "/ignore" command--it works wonders . . . .

[Kulamata]

At release, Hz was "The Game for Everyone Else", that is the casual, in and out gamer. It did remarkably well at defining and designing for that group. (Execution lacked a bit, but we know enough about that.) Part of the attraction for many, many players was NO PVP WHATSOEVER. I still think that Horizons is attractive to that huge audience, especially if it backs away from the "grind = Achievement" paradigm that influenced so much of later development.

The forums are part of the marketing interface to the wider world. Even if established players would ignore Blizzkids' postings (beautiful characterization Kwinn), those postings would be there turning off the potential large general, semi-casual, pool of potential players that Hz is so well suited to.

[Kelsaka]

I would rather have no PvP in Horizons, I was glad to get away from it when I joined this game, but if they introduced it on a seperate server I wouldn't complain.

Yes PvP is popular, but there are lots of PvP MMORPGs out there already.