Information!!!!!!!

[Star]

Gonna go take a peek at their office later hehehe

[Varangaard]

When I first saw that GHI thingy I tought it was obviously about the same kind of deal EII/PME have goind with Savage Eden - a western hosting for their games. Though in case of Savage Eden, I am unable to verify if it is still developed by the Korean company.

But since a theory on HZ development has been brought up in this thread; frankly, GHI is in just as good postition to develop HZ as PME. Both would need to go through reams of documentation and familiarize themselves with workings of the client/engine system. Only, PME would need to be able to convince GHI to divert some of their coders from creating their games (they seemed to have two or three in development) to studying HZ code instead. I'm not sure if they could see it as a viable business proposition, considering the size of playerbase and the downwards trend it is having. Neither does it help that simulation layer uses a LUA-derivative exclusively made for HZ; they'd need to learn a new programming language just for that.

While enough cash no doubt could hire them a team just for that, at the moment I see it far more unlikely a partnership. I'll go by my original guess - PME will be hosting US versions of GHI's game(s), they are already familiar with that process from Savage Eden.

[Alpion]

When I first saw that GHI thingy I tought it was obviously about the same kind of deal EII/PME have goind with Savage Eden - a western hosting for their games. Though in case of Savage Eden, I am unable to verify if it is still developed by the Korean company.

The information I have obtained so far is that Nako (the original developer of Savage Eden) has been bought. Savage Eden is apparently many, many patches (years+) behind the other overseas versions of the game. There has been some discussion that this is because Savage Eden does not have enough of a player base (meaning profit/income) to make it worth their time to change the patches to be compatible with Savage Eden. There's lots of good info on the Savage Eden forums if you can put up with browsing through a lot of gibberish.

As far as this GHI deal, to me it simply looks like PME is doing exactly what they are saying...providing a portal to other online games and forums. I don't believe this has anything to do with Horizons or our future development. Hopefully we'll hear something official soon.

[Kwinn]

HGI is a hosting provider for PME.. HGI is NOT developing Horizons =). If anyone was trying to suggest that, shame on you. The deal specifically deals with hosting and forums etc. Nothing to do with HZ development..

Carry on.

How exactly to you know this? Please be specific, the world wonders...

[MadDwarf]

How exactly to you know this? Please be specific, the world wonders...

because it fits PME's vision for how they want to do business. The first mistake anyone has here is that they believe that Horizons is going to be PME's premiere product. Sorry you are wrong to PME Horizons is just another Savage Eden. An MMO bought at a bargain basement price that has a small playerbase that they feel needs not much maintenance. They are looking at acquiring other games and partners to meet their vision of being a game portal and game hosting service. It says as much right on their webpage.

Plus as well any developer looking at HZ right now to fix the existing code simply wouldn't pick it up. It would take to much time and cost to much. Now if Horizons had lets say 30000 paying subs than it would be worth to look at developmentally. But Horizons doesn't even have 10,000 and probably much much lower than that. From a business perspective it simply makes no sense to sink money into an older MMO when newer better ones will come out to provide further competition and no garantee of a return on the investment.

PME's plans for Horizons is simple. They will add content via already existing in game tools. There will be no work on the client and no more indepth work other than adding a quest here or there and adding events. EII now PME pretty much said as much from what they said they were going to do. They never really said any hardcore development was going to be done on HZ. Would you with a low profit potential title already ?

Remember horizons was sold because a very experienced Financial guy looked at the numbers and trends. He looked at current income and future needs. He decided it was best to offload a money sink he no longer wanted to fund. EII picked it up because it was cheap and they never had any more plans for it other than what they do in SE. Its common sense once you look at the big picture. So now PME is looking at other partners like HGI where they can host the various games they have and will make. Look for them to also add more partners for the same goal.

As I have said before be happy with whats in game now because thats as good as it will get.

[Spartikus]

Geezus Kwinn it's right in the press release quoted by peaches. Read. That was also coroborated by one of the ex-devs.

If Peaches doesn't work for EII then when was the last time someone official posted something? When was the last ingame event? :/

Cheers

[snickel]

Hello MadDwarf,

some of the things you said seem to me more or less credible conjecture on the basis of economic reasoning.

I think, however, that you go one step too far when you assume that you know PMEs vision -- what you wrote in that regard is your own speculation, is it not? While your conclusions might seem probable to some, probability is not proof. So what you gave us is your speculation about PMEs plans, but not an inside view into their plans (based on reliable information about their board meetings, for example).

I think it would help a lot if we took a scientific stance about all this and separate information from speculation.

[diabolis]

You call that a web site....More smoke and mirrors

[vahrokh_the_ancient]

Until Horizons gets sold and resold it's because it holds enough value to be paid money for by someone, be that someone sold it or deceived into a seemingly good "bargain".

I only hope that if some day Horizons will stop being "good enough to be sold" they will release at least part of it to the open source community. I think I myself could code more of Horizons than what's been done in the last months and would gladly spare some time to save my dragon.

[Aria]

Hello MadDwarf,

some of the things you said seem to me more or less credible conjecture on the basis of economic reasoning.

I think, however, that you go one step too far when you assume that you know PMEs vision -- what you wrote in that regard is your own speculation, is it not? While your conclusions might seem probable to some, probability is not proof. So what you gave us is your speculation about PMEs plans, but not an inside view into their plans (based on reliable information about their board meetings, for example).

I think it would help a lot if we took a scientific stance about all this and separate information from speculation.

Agreed. As such, assumptions that they will develop or not develop HZ is just personal opinion (or hope), not official. Thus, this thread, like several others, is just a rumor.

PME, we're waiting to hear some official word...long past due to break the silence here.

[MadDwarf]

Hello MadDwarf,

some of the things you said seem to me more or less credible conjecture on the basis of economic reasoning.

I think, however, that you go one step too far when you assume that you know PMEs vision -- what you wrote in that regard is your own speculation, is it not? While your conclusions might seem probable to some, probability is not proof. So what you gave us is your speculation about PMEs plans, but not an inside view into their plans (based on reliable information about their board meetings, for example).

I think it would help a lot if we took a scientific stance about all this and separate information from speculation.

raise your all who have been involved in commercial development

/em raises hand

raise your hand all who have been involved in projects picked up from other vendors and who have had to work on them

/em raises hand

raise your hand if you have been involved with the business resources side of making all that work

/em raises hand

I did not say any of that to paint more gloom or to paint a negative picture. I know exactly the mess that EII walked into and know exactly the feeling of being overwhelmed. I also know exactly what HGI does and I clearly understand what PME's business scope is. Its perfectly crystal clearly painted out. They want to be an online prescence for all online games. They want to host and run games and they want to have partners in the development side of things. Horizons is but one game and part of the issue that no one here understands is that horizons is not PME's premiere product. Its just another game in a hopeful long list of many games to come. Since people here do not understand that Horizons is just another service under their umbrella they get upset when they do not recieve attention 1 from EII/PME.

I can see Horizons being given to HGI to work on. But that will be put along side the many other projects that HGI has. If they look at the code and go holy smokes its going to cost huge $$$ to bring up to speed guess whats not going to happen ? Its pure business and development costs dollars and despite visions of someguy sitting in his basement coding his brains out thats not how it happens in the real world.

So yes I have no facts and I conjecture. I can indeed make very good guesses at how its going to go. Simply because I have the been there and done that perspective.

Either way though I have to give PME credit for actively going out and trying to make their business vision a reality. They are trying to break into a market that is well entrenched with well knowns ( SOE , EA Mythic , Blizzard, Turbine ). They have their work cut out of them and I actually hope they can make some headway with Horizons where Tulga could not. But being I know how this all works I find that road to be a long rocky one.

So I can safely say what you have now is what you have. Add in new quests and whatever can be added by already available in game support tools and events. Be happy with that and if it brings you enjoyment to quote the good doctor " Fantasitc !!! ". Is that enough ?

But do not get upset because PME isn't here all the time or when it becomes obvious that Horizons is just another Savage Eden to them.

[Phillip]

Personally, I don't think there's a shortage of MMOs out there endulge, rather than spend the time speculating and promoting false hope.

[vahrokh_the_ancient]

Personally, I don't think there's a shortage of MMOs out there

How many other current MMOs have huge, lovely, wonderful playable dragons?

[Leviathan]

The following press release announced Pixel Magic Entertainment’s acquisition of EI today. Pixel brings new partners and resources to EI and Horizons, including expertise in communications, marketing and software development. There will be new additions to the Horizons team and greater support in the coming weeks and months, both for player support and for game development. This partnership is a great step towards an even brighter future for Istaria and its citizens.


This pretty clearly states there will be development

[Phillip]

Not to the illiterate.......

[awdz]

i would just like to know in what direction the software development will head. there can be a variety of interpretations. personally, i hope eventually for new content but would not be averse to underlying game improvements i've heard are needed first (engine or something? i don't really understand this stuff). it would be nice to know more specifically what to expect; uncertainty with transitions is killer to morale. i won't stop with my eternally optimistic hope though ;-)

[Garfonso]

I'd like to have a working client...

[Spartikus]

Talk about chanbging your tune midstream.. We were talking about the HGI press release.. now all the sudden you flip back to the PME thing? Yeah.. ok.. whatever works for you.

PME IS EII. Read the board of directors list. The only person not listed there is Ray Rask. He's apparantly too busy working on the EII website to be on the board..

If you dont like the answers you get dont ask the questions. You wanted to know what PME brings to the table.. Nothing. Ray Rask is no longer listed as part of the board, Ed is as well as a new doctor whom most people are assuming is a new investor after Ray's exit. That my friends is PME.

The HGI press info, which this thread is discussing.. is about a hosting agreement with an eastern company who develop online games. Some people will believe what they want regardless of the truth though, that much has been proven.

Enjoy.

[Garfonso]

It doesn't matter much who develops HZ, as long as someone does. And as long as EI/PME promises to do so, I like to believe that they will if they get the chance.

I don't care much about what agreement they have with HGI. *shrugs*

I just wonder how some of you so certainly terminate the possibility that they may develop hz. Sure, it's stated nowhere... But it's not denied anywhere, so no one of us knows... let's wait and see...

[Seenu]

http://activecapital.org/aboutus_bod.html

Board of Directors

Terry E. Bibbens, Chairman. Chairman and CEO of Bibbens and Co., formerly SBA's first Entrepreneur In Residence, key architect of ACE-Net organizational and legal strategies; founder of early Silicon electronics company, head of major division of Loral and numerous business coalitions and councils.

-----------------------------------


Ok it seems that this Terry Bibbons is for real. He was was working at the SBA and even testified before Congress. His group now is an investor group. It seems that with the new money involved the investors wanted a corporation with new structure. Dont worry about incorporating in Nevada, many companies do that.

I see he also used to work for Loral Corp as it is mentioned here. I googled Loral and according to press reports, Loral is one of the largest defense contractors in the USA. The CEO of Loral, Bernard Schwartz, in the 1990's was a close friend of Bill Clinton so it makes sense that someone (like Terry) who worked with Loral would get an appointment in the SBA under Clinton's term.

There was scandal associated with Loral.
Loral was partially responsible for helping the Chinese perfect thier ICBM's and that created a bit of a scandal and they got some bad press for it. Schwartz gave 1.3 million to Clintons political campaigns over the years. Loral also got bad press when a satalite with codes and chips that were rediation resistant fell into the hands of the Chinese.

Clinton/Gore fundraising took a great deal of illegal Chinese money. A chief fundraiser for the campaign was Maria Hsia, she was made the fall guy for some illegal Chinese money and was indicted on 6 counts of breaking FEC laws. Judge Paul Friedman, a Clinton appointee, threw most of her indictments out of court.

-----------------------

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/BUSINES...9/china.loral/
On Wednesday, Loral again said it regretted failing to seek approval in aiding China. A 1999 congressional probe determined that Loral gave China valuable information that helped it improve its missiles.

-----------------------


I doubt that Terry Bibbens had anything to do with the scandals but all of this info on Loral Corp is in the public domain. At least Bibbens does have experience in technology companies so that is a plus.

Well you guys said you wanted information, so like it or not here it is. It would seem that Terry Bibbons has ties to allot of money men. Hopefully enough money to keep the game going and improve it.