Improve the multiclassed adventurer experience

[Shian]

Honestly Kumu, I think it would add MORE of a timesink not take it away. What do people do when you cannot gain levels normally because of too high of a skill? Trophies! Yes trophies-they can get a player from 1-100 in a matter of minutes, given enough of them.

[Vengeance]

Personally I like the way the rating system works. I consider my rating a badge of honor that I have worked very hard at. Just my 2 coppers.

[Veruliyam]

Yeah. I see the bipeds running about with 100+ levels and think, "Wow! I wonder if I have the patience to get to that point."

I believe it took quite a bit of time and definitely some effort, considering how rumor points to how difficult it was to even get the game to go before Virtrium came in and rescued Horizons *cough* Istaria! *cough* from slow agonizing death by obscurity.

*falls to his belly and grovels before Virtrium*

I've been in the game about 8 months and my dragon just hit 59th a few days ago. My only comparison is my 91st level character in (dare I say it...) RuneScape. That took me 4 years, and overall that was on again, off again playing. Although some sessions were as long as 15 hours...

[Terao]

Yes it needs time to get a several lvl 100 biped and I don't feel that this needs to be made easier, I like it the way it is now.

[Vlisson]

ok whats the benefit of this suggestion?

1) you can group with other peoples

2) you can fight other mobs

so if you are lvl 1 and rating 100 you have to group with high lvls (or grind trophies)
if you are lvl 1 and rating 1 you can group with new players, low lvl players...

if you are lvl 1 and rating 100 you have to hunt high lvl mobs (most in the same area and the same mobs)
if you are lvl 1 and rating 1 you can discover the new made and redesigned areas, fight new mobs and a lot of different ones, get different loot...

like i already mentioned this "amnesia" should have a big disadvantage (this should need to be discussed in another thread, if this "amnesia" idea gets approved of further development

[Algernon]

ok whats the benefit of this suggestion?

1) you can group with other peoples

2) you can fight other mobs

so if you are lvl 1 and rating 100 you have to group with high lvls (or grind trophies)
if you are lvl 1 and rating 1 you can group with new players, low lvl players...

if you are lvl 1 and rating 100 you have to hunt high lvl mobs (most in the same area and the same mobs)
if you are lvl 1 and rating 1 you can discover the new made and redesigned areas, fight new mobs and a lot of different ones, get different loot...

like i already mentioned this "amnesia" should have a big disadvantage (this should need to be discussed in another thread, if this "amnesia" idea gets approved of further development

Thanks for the succinct summary Vlisson.

I'd also add that you would get to experience the class that you're working on all of the way through. As it stands, as a rating 100+ character you're not really able to use the abilities/spells as they're made available because you need to fight higher lvl mobs against which they (your new abilities etc) have no appreciable effect.

I also believe that the rating system works quite well and that if your amnesia has also removed your stats armor etc (maybe it also has to strip the crafting benefits to jewellery etc also) then it shouldn't make it easier to gain additional levels, just more fun.

With the server numbers that I experienced last time I was playing it was a very solitary grinding affair to level. Allowing us to play with younger characters as equals would greatly enhance my gaming experience.

Alger.

[Algernon]

Yes it needs time to get a several lvl 100 biped and I don't feel that this needs to be made easier, I like it the way it is now.

I'd never suggest that anything be changed to make it easier to gain additional levels. The rating system is there to balance the increase in power that you get from gaining additional classes against the difficulty of raising further skills/classes.

If the rating system is doing it's job correctly (and I believe it is) then there must be no possibility of exploiting the changes that I've suggested.

The (as I understand it) common practice of grinding on trophies at higher levels is an indication that there's something wrong. Choosing to forego your multiclassed abilities etc may well prove a more difficult path to multiclassing but would certainly be more fun than trophy grinding. I never thought that I would long for the days of the wolf circle

As I suggested in an earlier post, it may be interesting to know what the stats are on time to level, particularly whether there is any marked difference between those of higher AR and new characters. Perhaps a dev with penchant for sql could oblige

Alger.

[Vlisson]

its a shame that the most suggestions got stomped because they think its only to get more power and faster and easier

[Karya]

Let's try and stick with the topic. Insulting each other isn't going to help solve this issue. I would be interested in figuring out a better way to multi-class bipeds without having to farm tokens from creatures like I know a few are doing because there's no other way to raise their adventure levels. Let's stick with the topic, shall we?

Karya

[Algernon]

Let's try and stick with the topic. Insulting each other isn't going to help solve this issue. I would be interested in figuring out a better way to multi-class bipeds without having to farm tokens from creatures like I know a few are doing because there's no other way to raise their adventure levels. Let's stick with the topic, shall we?

Karya

Hi Karya,

I didn't perceive any slight in any of the messages above. I hope I've not caused offence.

What do you think of the suggestion in this thread?

Alger.

[Garfonso]

I think leveling every class from level 1 with rating 1 is muuuuuuuuuch more work. Most people will refrain from doing a monk, for example. It would reveal all those problems many of the biped schools still have or that got added with the recent "fixes".

You won't have much problems leveling real fast with some friends today with the rating system. But you will, when you'd be a lvl 1 (or 10 or whatever) with less than 100hp and just no armor again. You'd be instant killed in most areas of istaria. Today it's quite common for people to start a "new" multiclassed school in the ED or at least on ice island... and it's absolutely no problem for them to level quite fast, at least the first 6-8 schools or so.

To the dragons: Of course a biped can get very strong. But that won't happen with just on school, it won't happen with 3 schools. It will take something like 6 or more. That means 600 level.
A lvl 100 dragon is so much stronger than any rating 100 biped... my lvl 75 dragon is much stronger than my rating 138 biped (which are "just" 3 lvl 100 classes and took my more than 3 years. The lvl 75 rating dragon rose up in very short time). Starting a Dragon is like "horizons light" these days. It might have been different, but today the adventure life of a fresh dragon is just ridiculuos easy in my opinion.

Personaly I'd be lucky for such a change, even if it would cost me much more time to multiclass further (I'm realy conviced about that) it would make much more fun... I don't like hunting in ED all the time.. it's getting real boring. If you could visit the rest of istaria again and feel like a little boy again with your beloved cat... uhm character, that would be greate...

You would even be more flexible when going out to hunt in groups.. just start a new school at the same time, take the amnesia pill and go to new trismus in group to run through all those 100 level again. That'd be much more fun in my eyes than staying all the time in the ED or similar high level areas and grinding one's levels up...

[Vlisson]

the advantage of the amnesia is not to multiclass easier (it should take more time and effort to gain as lvl 30 and rating 30 xp than for a lvl 30 and rating 150) like garfonso already stated.

the advantage is to group with friends and experience the world with every new lvl again.

and the two systems would be available at the same time, YOU CHOOSE!!

maybe there should be a special amnesia spell/trinket/pill which allows you to gain a specific lvl

for example your friend is lvl 40 rating 40 and you want to group with him but you dont have an school in this lvl range availabel. you want to be lvl 40 too and temporary "convert" your school from lvl 100 to 40, you dont get xp (because your school is already at top)

maybe you get anything else (instead of xps)?

[Algernon]

*shameless bump*

Is this in yet?

Alger.

[Drakarr]

LOL nope, but if the idea was to truely only experience the class as it was intended, you can still fight only the things in your lvl range using your new abilities and spells. Don't put abilities from other classes on your hotkey bar. Don't put spells from other classes on your bar. Use only the new stuff you get.

No, the mobs may never hit you, or do no dmg. No, you won't get exp for the fight. But you will get trophies and can lvl that way. You don't need to farm them either to extend your feel for how that class plays, just take 1-3 at a time, get the trophies and lvl that way.

Yeah, it will take a while, but that way you will get a feel for the class and how it's spells and abilities work for it. And when you get the feel and maybe get bored you can always go back to th other abilities and finish off the class.

[Algernon]

LOL nope, but if the idea was to truely only experience the class as it was intended, you can still fight only the things in your lvl range using your new abilities and spells. Don't put abilities from other classes on your hotkey bar. Don't put spells from other classes on your bar. Use only the new stuff you get.

No, the mobs may never hit you, or do no dmg. No, you won't get exp for the fight. But you will get trophies and can lvl that way. You don't need to farm them either to extend your feel for how that class plays, just take 1-3 at a time, get the trophies and lvl that way.

Yeah, it will take a while, but that way you will get a feel for the class and how it's spells and abilities work for it. And when you get the feel and maybe get bored you can always go back to th other abilities and finish off the class.

Hehe,

Yes. Maybe we could add a +10 irony tech

Alger.

[Greenclaw1]

*** bump ***

So how about this then. I've recently (often) thought that I'd like to come back and play (once Vista support happens) but am not sure whether I can hack the AR misery.

Is there any actual reason technical or gameplay wise that this couldn't or shouldn't be implemented?

Alger.

PS: Where did Kumu's post go to? Was he made persona non grata?

Two Years to bump your thread, 06 to 08. That's got to be an internet record.

[Guaran]

Seems to me a system is already in place to allow you to experience spiritist as if it was your first class: make a new toon. Try out a fiend while you are at it.

Your suggestion simply makes it easier to level, but once you get to a certain point, it is supposed to slow down. Therefore I think the suggestion is a bad idea.

A fresh new toon would allow you to:

1) Level a new school as if it was your first school.

2) Fight any sort of mobs you want.

3) No need to worry about trophies.

4) Group with other low level characters.

The fun of the game is in no way diminished by playing a new toon. And your knowledge and "experience" with the game will still benefit you. Give it a try

[rizo/nawkia]

This is just a random idea that popped into my head as i was reading this. This pretains to dragons as well. But after reaching 100 why not make a slider that allows the user to change his level as long as he is in that school, and when he leaves that school it reverts back to 100. This allows for grouping still at lower levels, skills are lower(except from other schools i know but this can be countered by making the character only have one school while the slider is activated) arnir us kiwer, ablilties as well. Trophies really wouldnt matter for that class because its already 100 and experience wouldnt matter either cause they are also already at 100. Might be kinda werid tho to see a lvl 1 ancient dragon:P (offtopic but could ya add extra xp for grouping, the bigger the group the more the xp, so much fun that is)

my 2 cents

[Mensar]

Hi There,

I've recently rejoined the world of Istaria (Order) and have been enjoying myself much more than I had expected. Since my return I have begun working on another class, spiritist.

Algernon is not what many would now consider heavily multiclassed (judging by some of the ratings i've seen wandering about recently)

The schools that Alger has at the moment are:

Spiritist 40 (current class)
Knight of Creation 100
Battle Mage 100
Healer 100
Mage 100
Warrior 100
Cleric 23
Monk 10

With a current lvl Spiritist 40/Rating 119 I am finding that I can manage to level at a rate that is at least as quick as I would be managing if it were my first class, though to achieve this I am forced to fight mobs far above what would be possible with 40 lvls of spiritist.

I will manage to get to 100 spiritist over time but I don't feel that I yet have a feel for what it's truly like or about to be a spiritist. My ability to multistrike etc mobs with my stick of bashing far exceeds that of my Spiritist spells at the moment and I don't feel that I will have had as much fun or value out of the Spiritist Class as I would if I had started the class with a lower rating.

I love multiclassing to death and am not particularly interested in starting an alt character to begin training Spiritist from rating 0. I look forward to completing the class and discovering the new facets that it will add to Algers game. The interaction of multiple classes in a character is imho a great strength of Horizons and I realy enjoy the fact that you can get a group together and decide which class you will take out for a particular hunting party. The ability to experience a multitude of playstyles with the one character is superb.

HOWEVER: Leveling a multiclassed character can be a drudgery that detracts from the gameplay experience of the class that you are levelling. Leveraging existing skills is fine but I often don't feel that I am playing the role of a (in this case) Spiritist.

I suggest that a ritual or quest of amnesia (insert better name here) be introduced that allows you to forget for a time your previously learned training so that you can experience playing a class with a much lower rating but also without the benefit of those skills, abilities & stats. You could take the indigo pill (or whatever) and go back to being a Young player. It would be cool to head back to New Trismus and experience all of the fantastic new content that has been added.

I don't think that this would/could be exploited to create an easier path to uber multiclassed godhood and may indeed be a more difficult way to level a character. I am sure though that It would add to the enjoyment of many players who find that adding additional classes to a character is something to be endured rather than enjoyed.

NB: What I am suggesting is different from the forgetting thing that allows you to permanently untrain a skill. I want to retain all of my classes.

Some ideas on possible implentations;

• Allow players to perform a task or quest for the trainer of each of the skills that they wish to TEMPORARILY forget. This would allow the player to remove all benefit derived from the class and take away a proportion of their stats in return for a comensurate drop in rating. You could either make this for a fixed duration or allow the player to return to the trainer whenever they liked to regain their knowledge and strength. Maybe a quest could be required to remember what was lost.

• Allow players to perform a ritual or quest that removes all prior knowledge TEMPORARILY so that they begin at rating 1 or whatever their current class is at. This would probably best be done with a fixed committment of two to four weeks during which time the player may not regain use of his/her previous skills/abilities/stats.

What do you think? Would this make adventuring more fun for you? If you were to implement something like this how would you go about it? What kind of quests, rituals etc would be involved (if any)? Would it be diffrerent per race?

Algernon.

Too many folks have been jaded by the long multiclass grind. You probably won't get much support for this idea on the forums since the whole "I did it, why shouldn't you" mentality is as prevalent here now as it ever was.

[Algernon]

Too many folks have been jaded by the long multiclass grind. You probably won't get much support for this idea on the forums since the whole "I did it, why shouldn't you" mentality is as prevalent here now as it ever was.

Meh,

You're probably right. The thing that would bring me back though would be revisiting my existing character (and playing with a friend who's still in) NOT starting a new one. Unfortunately there's likely no prospect for this but grind. It's been a while since I was in but there was no "Elder" game happening on the server last time I managed to visit.

The lapsed high level player is a huge potential resource for any mmo and I can't imagine an mmo deleting a character ever!!!1! just in case they idly thought to check out their game again.

For this reason I'm not sure why my guild plot was deleted recently btw. It's not like there's a shortage of space in my guild (2 active accounts atm) that would justify this move (or a lack of space on the server for that matter). Also don't think that the resources for the house were returned to my bank account or to anyone still in the guild. What was this meant to achieve with regard to fun? This is meant to be entertainment that's being paid for, right?

What's on offer for returning vet's other than a kick in the teeth? This was quite a popular mmo in it's time (how many servers were there before the great collapse?) an I'd wager that many have fond memories of their time playing HZ (ICOTG).

Have server numbers increased since the last time I played? On Order the most I saw at a time in Marketplace was about 10. That can't be paying the bills can it? What are server pops like on Chaos?

If server numbers a soaring then this is a moot point. Please let me know if things have changed and there's a whole new generation of ICOTG players out there. I realy will shut up about it. If there's not, then attracting players back to the game (I'm a nostalgic soul) would seem a good idea.

My previous experience with returning (not that it's going to happen unless vista support is sorted) was that it was boring. True, I could start a new character, but what brought me back was my existing investment in my 'toon' so I'm disinclined to start from scratch. I'd just as well go play any other mmo (possibly a free Korean one for example).

Any ideas for making the game fun for returning multiclassed characters? Grinding is of course an option but now that there appears little reasonable chance of finding a group of fellow grinders there seems little point.

</rant></care>

Alger