Beginner and Journeyman Promote Intellect formulas

[Frith-Rae]

I second this actually. As someone who prefers craft over adventure I find this game becoming more and more uncomfortably tailored to said adventurers. Also there's the aforementioned point of the fact that the melee dragons have had access to it through the trainers since level one... I don't really like this trend of all new dragon spells being drop only. I mean expert fine....we're used to expert, but begginer and journeyman drop only seems kinda silly to me.

So after all the craft improvements and changes for CRAFTING dragons over the last 2-3 years...you see this as becoming "more tailored to adventuers"???

Sorry, I disagree. And I've done nothing but craft for the last few years BECAUSE adventuring was pointless for me...

The Adventure side of things needs improving!

[Nayuaka]

Frith-Rae, I ment no insult. I simply think that while the game was tailored more to crafters before it's becoming more adventure orientated in some ways now. I just think that a proper balance needs to be found rather then swinging to one side or the other. However, while I would love to discuss with with you in the future and hear your points of view this thread isn't the place for it.

LO, I actually like that idea. I think what irritates me now isn't nessisarily that I have to adventure for forms but rather the inconsistancy of what I need to adventure for. If all forms were drop only and you had to adventure for them to get them then that would be a fact. Right now it's some are, some arn't...I just find it irksome.

[Deth]

Personally I like that. It means if I want to hunt I have a reason or if I wanted to craft I could have a reason. I like things being diffrent.

[Firebrand]

That's not the point, still. The point is : Promote Vitality and Promote Intellect should be treated the same way. Either make them both drop-only or trainer-bought, but both the same.

My point exactly. Promote Intellect is a great addition toward equality between melee and casting among Dragons and is a change I was waiting for a long time. But getting the Beginner/Journeyman formulas by drop only seems a new splinter in the foot for casters, as the access to the spell will be more difficult than Promote Vitality.
Oh, not really for me as I am already hunting for the Expert one. But Beginner and Journeyman formulas should be design for players who need them: newcommers for Beginner formulas and mid-levels players for Journeyman. These people don't need a formula drop to have a reason to go hunting: they just need it for their own advancement.
So those the way to get formulas shouldn't be designed for elite veterans who ever need Beginner/Journeyman formulas drops to go hunting and remove their bordeom when they sit in their lair/house wondering what the heck they could do today.

I think crystals or rare items are a much better reason to go hunting, but that's only my opinion.

[Dragonboy]

Are the tier 1 versions of Primal health and Promote intelect (and maybe gift of velocity) for sale on the NT spell vendor?
If not perhaps that is also an idea, then atleast the hatchlings can use it untill they loot the beginner form to craft it themselves.
Or someone can atleast stock the connies.

I agree that both spells act simular and there for ought to be treated simular. Either both loot or neither.

[Takora Drakan]

Well from the lore point, it is a brand new spell that was never seen before, so how came the trainers then in the possesion of them then? Maybe if there was a quest where you bring them the formular, and enough players do the same the trainers would then after a while have the jman and beginner version for sale, but I doubt that anyone would do this.

But its always the same with new stuff, all want to have it like now and yesterday.

[SinOfSuns]

The trainers can always get them later on though

[Zexoin]

Well from the lore point, it is a brand new spell that was never seen before, so how came the trainers then in the possesion of them then? Maybe if there was a quest where you bring them the formular, and enough players do the same the trainers would then after a while have the jman and beginner version for sale, but I doubt that anyone would do this.

But its always the same with new stuff, all want to have it like now and yesterday.

Game mechanics shouldn't adapt to lore, but lore should adapt to game mechanics.
And once again, you are totally missing the point.

*sighs* I give up.

[Takora Drakan]

I am not missing the point my dear, and assuming something that is not true is not nice. When it is not dragon vs bipeds, it is melee vs caster dragons?

I am satified with the new spell, but you and others seem to simply want more again. Just because Promote Vitality was aviable all the time why should this brand new spell then suddenly, just because you feel the lower leveled ones are edged out of them? It was the same with gift of velo and primal health and now hardly anyone cares about the beginner and jman forms of them. If you all feel so concerned for the lower players fill the connies up with copies of the spell till they explode.

[Zexoin]

I am not missing the point my dear

Seems like you do, or you wouldn't have posted this :

and assuming something that is not true is not nice. When it is not dragon vs bipeds, it is melee vs caster dragons?

I am satified with the new spell, but you and others seem to simply want more again. Just because Promote Vitality was aviable all the time why should this brand new spell then suddenly, just because you feel the lower leveled ones are edged out of them? It was the same with gift of velo and primal health and now hardly anyone cares about the beginner and jman forms of them. If you all feel so concerned for the lower players fill the connies up with copies of the spell till they explode.

(I guess there's a missing verb somewhere, I had to read several times to understand your sentence.)

Read my post above. Or better, I will quote myself for you to read.

That's not the point, still. The point is : Promote Vitality and Promote Intellect should be treated the same way. Either make them both drop-only or trainer-bought, but both the same.

Do you understand, now, my dear ?

and yes, this is caster vs melee, I am not ashamed to admit it at all

[Deth]

Just because some one does not agree with your point does not mean we do not get it. It just means we do not agree. You think it is not fair, myself I think it is fair, maybe not as fair as you would like but it's not like I or anyone else can not get the formula with out say having play the game for a year of real time. Now that would be unfair I feel. This just proves that only the few the proud the Caster will put forth the effort to get the spell. The lazy melee (Dripping sarcasm if you miss it ) who want to take the path of least resistance and want to just gold rage every mob to death will not. *puts away his soap box*

(Disclaimer none of this is meant to hurt anyone feelings and is just a joke. So please do not start a flame war over it. I love my Melee Lunus cousins.)

[Takora Drakan]

Like Deth said, just because some do not agree doesn't mean that they don't get the point.

And why should they treated the same? Because the poor caster dragons feel left out? There is not caster or melee dragon, there is just one school for dragons called "Dragon". Because someone prefers to melee more or cast more doesn't make them better or worser.

It seems you don't get the point that it is a new spell (like velo and health), and the devs decided we should do something for it instead of shoved to us. And the promote spells are different ones that can be used by ALL dragons (gasp!).

[Zexoin]

Lol, I was about to post something mean and stupid when my computer blue-screened. I guess it was warning me I'm doing it wrong. I'm leaving the argument here folks. I explained my point of view. Enjoy !

[SinOfSuns]

Actually, I agree with Zexoin.

I'm a melee type myself, and I don't see why both abilities can't be bought/learned in the long run. Right now, I feel it's perfectly acceptable for the formula to be drop-only, but in the future I would like to see things changed so that it was more accessable to everyone. But that's the future, of course, and not now.

Really, we shouldn't be arguing over what happens RIGHT NOW, because we need to give things a chance to settle. Once the dust clears, THEN we can make decisions on whether it worked or not.

As a side note, the devs didn't necessarily decide to make it a drop because of lore reasons, they might also have done it because it's easier to implement quickly ;P

[Frith-Rae]

In the interst of definitely posting on topic

Me personally, as I rarely hunt anymore (though I keep planning to get back into it) am not bothered with forms being drops - because hey - we all need more things/reasons to hunt.

I do understand and partially agree with the viewpoint of "pick a side" as far as either both reciepies being drops, or both on the trainer.

However for me it comes to more of a level difference - or maybe a hatchling vs. adult issue. I feel that, to make the hatchling's life a bit easier and for them to be able to have everything they "need" to be the best hatchling they can (and to make a more informed decision about caster heavy or melee heavy) *I* feel that beginner formulas at least should be on the trainer/NPC.

Jman and Expert can be up for debate, or can be both and mixed. But for our wee babes I think it would be nicer and make the game more playable for them if they didn't feel they had to farm mobs to get "basic" formulas.

Unless maybe the devs didn't mean for this to be a basic formula in people's arsenal and more of a "rare" thing? Not sure there, they didn't really say.

[Deth]

Now that is an argument I can get behind. A well it is different and that is bad does not work for me. But the argument that as a hatchling having both to compare how melee vs casting would work with the fullness of equal buffs. Looking at it that way then yes I would say maybe at least the beginner form should be on the trainer.

[AmonGwareth]

However for me it comes to more of a level difference - or maybe a hatchling vs. adult issue. I feel that, to make the hatchling's life a bit easier and for them to be able to have everything they "need" to be the best hatchling they can (and to make a more informed decision about caster heavy or melee heavy) *I* feel that beginner formulas at least should be on the trainer/NPC.

Who says every hatchling should be able to be "the best they can be" by handing everything to them? I certainly don't subscribe to that theory. You should work for your rewards. You buy scales or tech comps to make scales or you go hunt for them, why shouldn't you hunt for some spells?

You can all argue about it to your heart's delight, but just because item A was done one way doesn't mean that item B has to be done that way. Its lootable, have fun finding it. It isn't gonna change.

[Vaz]

You can all argue about it to your heart's delight, but just because item A was done one way doesn't mean that item B has to be done that way. Its lootable, have fun finding it. It isn't gonna change.

#@$%. That's all I have to say. Goodbye thread.

[Hraefn]

#@$%. That's all I have to say. Goodbye thread.

Rofl. xD

But very much agreed.

I do like the idea of having at least the beginner forms available to hatchlings, i.e. younger players so they know about it and go searching for more advanced forms of the spell. Or maybe it could be mentioned in one of the npc's dialogues that there are some mythical spells they've found on the corpses of beasts. Just -something- to get the word out to newbies aside from what they may or may not hear from players.

[RuneDragoon]

Interesting idea. I'd vote for all forms to be drop-only, except for a few very basic beginner ones that are quested for.

I don't mind it being quested for.