Blight Update 190 Discussion

[LOVWYRM]

(Vah, I totally understand. My best friends are such gifted hunters, and its a nightmare to loose them.
I, myself refuse to hunt on Sartyr, even if the reward was purple furniture for my lair. I shall ask them to hunt the comps for me-as usual, and grind t6 ressources o.s.for them in return).

[Teto Frum]

Ok I hope this isn't considered off topic and deleted, because it to me it flies directly with the blight 190 delta. I accept that despite what those of us think that actually frequent the Satyrs they are gone both for the current challenge and any sort of usefulness. What is on Algaed right now is NOT challenging in the least.

What makes the current Stayrs so challenging and fun, several things....mob integration is number one (you have to be ready for nearly every skill ingame to hunt there), mob respawn non predictability( im a veteren who hunts Satyrs a lot and getting any sort of handle on the spawn is near impossible, there are spots you learn of that somethings are easier to get certain places but anything is still possible), lack of safe zones to pull to or flee too. and lastly DEATH, adventurers don't feel the same way about death as the games crafters, we DONT fear it or hate it, we feed off it figure out what went wrong, upgrade something change something and go try to get our revenge.

The removal of Nadia made hunting the Satyrs relevent again, thats gonna be gone and we will just be people seen around the shard again, no use unless someones looking for extra strength on an epic or just wants the pattern to do it from us.

I can't see how the Satyrs remain a place anyone goes after this goes live due to stated needs of the developers. So if that is the case then another area needs to be found for those of us that have just lost our identity, with both challenge and need.

[Thicklesip]

Thoughts/impressions/mental detritus:

• Loot revamp: I don't envy the person put in charge of this. Really, really don't. We need it. We're also liable to be total babies about it, because short-term (a couple months, a year or two) everything will be changing-- some stuff with be rendered obsolete, we'll have to figure out what the new opportunities are, etc. People absolutely hate going through that. I'd say the best analogy I can think of is having one's wisdom teeth pulled. (I get to be kind of dismissive about it because I consider adventuring such a headache that it'd be very difficult for a revamp to make things worse for me.)
• Spawn revamp: Short-term even MORE disruptive than the loot revamp, long-term probably even more necessary. From my skimming I've gotten the impression that the Satyr Isles revamp is because, at the moment, the spaghetti code for that region is so awful that the devs can't even figure out how to make the game do what they want it to do. If that's right, that's the kind of thing that keeps them from ever making the game do new things. Unacceptable. I know it sucks, but giving Amon time to massage the bytes means that down the road there'd be nothing stopping him from making a new area with that kind of chaotic, hardcore difficulty, only on purpose. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got NEW areas of epic difficulty? (And don't give me the "but we won't bother if there's no loot!" line because what do you think the loot revamp is for.)
• Khutit heads: EE EE EE EE EEEE!
• Lairshape cogs: *deep breath* ...eeeeeeeeeee....
• Client chat commands: oh neat.
• Trophy tints: THANK YOU.

So I guess my big philosophical musing is about how people hate transition, even when it should get them to a better place in the end. I do feel for the bounty hunters of Istaria-- whether for fun, profit, or both what they do is kill the big scary stuff that sends players like me screaming for the mines, and that's what they like. The day someone proposes a similar crafting overhaul is the day I start oiling my pitchfork. On the other hand, it really does sound like this is all being done in the name of more and better fun. The spawns need to be mastered in order to have opportunities for new and awesome areas. The loot will probably benefit from being better organized, too.

[Guaran]

Also, this exchange process needs to cover all 5 tiers of WA comps.

It does, all obsolete tier 5 techniques are accepted as exchange.

Apologies for not being clear: I mean all tiers, Tier 1 WA comps, Tier 2 WA comps, Tier 3 WA comps, Tier 4 WA comps, and Tier 5 WA comps. This is based on assuming you are changing all tiers of WA to no longer drop comps. IMHO, as well as many others' opinions, this change is really a waste of dev effort. What is being fixed? So many other things are left half-finished or broken/bugged, and then you go and throw this on us. No more annual events, no more raid events. Priorities?

However, if the Wa stop dropping their comps, there's no point in hunting them. They need to CONTINUE to drop the comps they drop, and keep the exchange NPC in the game permanently. ... Techniques dropping there only isn't enough reason, and for the most part they will go about their WA business uninterrupted by the Gifted.

Negative, the Withered Aegis will not be dropping technique components.

I really hope the above point is fully addressed before this patch goes live...

As far as what they drop, we have stated that we are and will continue to work towards providing things from the Withered Aegis and the Undead that players will want to fight them for. That will be an on-going process.

The above should be fully thought-out BEFORE making this drastic change. Forgive me for pointing this out, but many changes in the past have been made with little regard to the consequences, only to then have to be undone later after much teeth-gnashing and disruption to the players. Broken quests, attuned items which can't be used (lore tokens), attuned and undelet-able quest items that were player crafted, ability changes from passive to active "because thats the only way to make it work" (which we know is simply not the case). NPC's removed that were needed for quests. Resources removed that were needed for quests. Mob's removed that were needed for quests. List goes on.

Players will be upset (and rightly-so) if the change is half-implemented, and then not finished/fixed/completed for another whole year...

[Teto Frum]

I couldn't agree with Guaran anymore than I do, if this is going to be step by step thing players are expected to wait out then the WHOLE plan needs laid out before hand. What the WA mobs are going to drop instead of comps to keep people hunting them needs figured out, before this goes live.

This is also much less popular on the shards than it is in here at least in my social group. Why jump from the t2 revamp to revamping a t5 zone, why not just follow the natural progression of the game, that gives more time to work this out between players and developers to ensure that whats implemented suits the largest group possible and satisfies everyone.

[Murial]

[QUOTE=Vahrokh;254364]
But that incredible feeling of relief at having earned my new T5 gear with sweat and blood was something... nowhere else to be found in Istaria.

Please don't kill that feeling.[/QUOTE

My thoughts exactly. As a biped, my first set of T5 armor/spells were not fully teched since I could not hunt on the islands. But, after getting 2 adventure classes to level 100, I was finally able to hunt there, and learned to love the challenge presented by the mix of mobs. I learned a great deal from hunting the satyr islands, both alone, and in groups. The feeling of accomplishment one gets from surviving there, and finding the needed comps, is incredible.

[Riaken]

Amon says

The other three islands will be readjusted, I am sorry but I cannot help that. There is no other way to accurately control the spawn rates or loot drop rates without doing that.

Are you saying this is an internal programming bug? If so that's the best reason you have given and I can understand and dislike it. But I can understand. I don't know the history of Virtrium, if you inherited the game, help make it, or took a chance to save it from certain death. I know there is alot of trouble shooting, bug fixing and errors in game. I know you are under staffed. And I try to understand your actions. With that quote at the top, I understand them better.

If it's in the works, I can wait. You have yet to give an empty promise. You guys do come through, I love the game enough to wait.

[Jayne]

Yes, again the whole reason I play is to hunt the comps at the satyrs........not much left to say then that

[Trust]

I think I figured out the method to his madness. I think he is seperating out the 4 islands into 4 level ranges. 80-84, 85-89, 90-94, and finally (hopefully) elnath at 95-99 for the big dogs to play at. each sub tier will have its own progressively harder satyr, etc. and loot drops will be scaled accordingly. thats just my guess, I may be way off base.

[Teto Frum]

Amon mentioned that reason in MP on Order , noticed that it didn't come up on Chaos or that it hadn't been mentioned anywhere on here that I saw. I asked him to relay that explanation here and thought when he didn't that wasn't the main motivation. Now I notice when I was looking for the post to copy it here I see its gone, So perhaps Amon you could lay out that explanation you gave me on Order , I don't wanna not get it right or speak for you. Then if this is a closed case we can all get focused on trying to ensure those of us concerned will still have both a purpose and place of equal quality hunting when this is done.

[AmonGwareth]

I think I figured out the method to his madness. I think he is seperating out the 4 islands into 4 level ranges. 80-84, 85-89, 90-94, and finally (hopefully) elnath at 95-99 for the big dogs to play at. each sub tier will have its own progressively harder satyr, etc. and loot drops will be scaled accordingly. thats just my guess, I may be way off base.

Correct, the islands are being broken down... 5 levels on each island.

First, we do realize that part of the chaos of the islands was their charm. However, the reasons why the islands have to change:

1. The spawns are SO messy we couldn't make heads nor tails of what was there.
2. We couldn't control what spawned, how many spawned or how often they spawned because of the state they were in.
3. Because we couldn't get any control over what/how much/how often things spawned, we had absolutely no way to control what/how much/how often things were looted.

My goals with the islands are:

• Clean them up so that I know what, how much and how often everything spawns.
• Make them every bit as challenging as they were before, but more like Ordered Chaos instead of Utter Chaos.

Now, as far as the loot from the WA. We understand that the removal of the Technique Components from them removes a lot of incentive for players to hunt there. But, there are now other reasons to hunt there and we've also been listening to your suggestions in this and other threads (as well as in the chats in-game) and have a growing list of potential new loot we'll be working on moving forward.

Some things about the loot revamp I think some folks don't know or realize.

1. Hoardables no longer drop from animals, insects or elementals. They do, however, drop from the Withered Aegis and Undead as well as the Semi-Intelligents (Werewolves, Ogres, Pygmies, etc).
2. Crystals ONLY drop from the Withered Aegis.

Anyway, some of your suggestions regarding trinkets and blighted equipment have been noted and we'll be looking at those more closely. Thank you all for your feedback.

[Vahrokh]

Anyway, some of your suggestions regarding trinkets and blighted equipment have been noted and we'll be looking at those more closely. Thank you all for your feedback

I have noticed those trinkets and tablets - they were in game when I played last time but did not care about them tbh. I found out that they tend to give some mild bonuses or nasty debuffs so I just get rid of them. Could you make them pawn-able please? Even for 1c, just to stop having to delete them.

[Knossos]

For planning purposes if and as appropriate can we be advised if the following Tech Comps now in player inventory have current Live Shard Technique Listing replaced by new listing (as shown in Nadia's inventory on Blight Shard)?


Emerald Golem Chip
Firey Dire Wolf Fang
Fire Opal Golem Chip
Giant Fire Beetle Mandible
Giant Flame Beetle Mandible
Giant Ice Beetle Mandible
Grey Necrofly Wing
Marble Golem Fragment
Mithril Golem Fragment
Purple Tarantula Venom
Purple Weaver Venom
Wind Elemental Vapor


Similarly will existing stocks of following Tech Comps be Renamed and assume new Technique Listings?:


Bloodsnout Snout to Ravenous Bloodshout Snout
Bhal'kuk Molar to Bhal'Kuk Chieftain's Molar
Blal'kuk Jawbone to Blal'kuk Warrior's Jawbone
Nahguk Pygmy Ear to Nah'guk Gatherer's Ear
Nahguk Ogre Jawbone to Nah'guk Warrior's Jawbone
Than'kuk Jawbone to Than'kuk Warrior's Jawbone


Knossos

[walkerglassmire]

I have noticed those trinkets and tablets - they were in game when I played last time but did not care about them tbh. I found out that they tend to give some mild bonuses or nasty debuffs so I just get rid of them. Could you make them pawn-able please? Even for 1c, just to stop having to delete them.

Or perhaps make them hoardable beyond the T1 ones? I seem to recall that was in the plan for them.

[Akrion]

Correct, the islands are being broken down... 5 levels on each island.

First, we do realize that part of the chaos of the islands was their charm. However, the reasons why the islands have to change:

1. The spawns are SO messy we couldn't make heads nor tails of what was there.
2. We couldn't control what spawned, how many spawned or how often they spawned because of the state they were in.
3. Because we couldn't get any control over what/how much/how often things spawned, we had absolutely no way to control what/how much/how often things were looted.

Yeah, I can definitely imagine the insanity of it. How the hell were the spawns even put there to begin with? xD Either someone, at some point and time, would have been able to make heads or tails of it and didn't document it very well or they just covered their eyes and threw spawns at the island.

My goals with the islands are:

• Clean them up so that I know what, how much and how often everything spawns.
• Make them every bit as challenging as they were before, but more like Ordered Chaos instead of Utter Chaos.

One thing I think that people enjoy about the utter chaos with the islands is the randomness it had to offer. Predictable fights get old and boring. One reason I believe why many people miss the blight anchors is because they added a small sense of unpredictability and gave a feel of needing to respond to the threat attacking them outside of the blight. I know this is why many on Order enjoyed it, there was some good RP behind quickly gathering fighters to respond to a sudden threat outside Kirasanct, for example. Now you only get an Aegis fight by going to them, and the Satir Islands still offered some randomness atleast.

I would suggest leaving unpredictability on the islands in some way if possible and assuming you don't already plan to.

Now, as far as the loot from the WA. We understand that the removal of the Technique Components from them removes a lot of incentive for players to hunt there. But, there are now other reasons to hunt there and we've also been listening to your suggestions in this and other threads (as well as in the chats in-game) and have a growing list of potential new loot we'll be working on moving forward.

Some things about the loot revamp I think some folks don't know or realize.

1. Hoardables no longer drop from animals, insects or elementals. They do, however, drop from the Withered Aegis and Undead as well as the Semi-Intelligents (Werewolves, Ogres, Pygmies, etc).
2. Crystals ONLY drop from the Withered Aegis.

Anyway, some of your suggestions regarding trinkets and blighted equipment have been noted and we'll be looking at those more closely. Thank you all for your feedback.

As long as you give a worthy reason to hunt there, I don't see there being a problem with changing the loot table. It would be a very welcome change because of how many things there aren't worth hunting anymore. Like how chromas are now completely pointless to hunt since players can just build colored weapons with regular dye, taking the drop from a very nice one to a very worthless one.

[Knossos]

It would be a very welcome change because of how many things there aren't worth hunting anymore. Like how chromas are now completely pointless to hunt since players can just build colored weapons with regular dye, taking the drop from a very nice one to a very worthless one.

While not found on the Satyr Islands, the Chromas are not entirely useless, they are ingredient in the only way to color Biped Tools. In addition, being kits from Chromas, a color for an uncolored weapon or a color change for an already colored weapon can be accomplished.

Knossos

[Romirez]

speaking of the blight anchors, why were they removed? it's getting more and more boring for adventurers on Order, because it's so predictable and done for the billionth time...

[Akrion]

While not found on the Satyr Islands, the Chromas are not entirely useless, they are ingredient in the only way to color Biped Tools. In addition, being kits from Chromas, a color for an uncolored weapon or a color change for an already colored weapon can be accomplished.

Knossos

Well it's good to hear that tools still need chromas. Recoloring a weapon however would be far easier to just make a new weapon due to how hard it is to find a chroma, let alone a chroma of the new color you'd want.

[Frith-Rae]

Players will be upset (and rightly-so) if the change is half-implemented, and then not finished/fixed/completed for another whole year...

I wanted to Quote this because I see it as one of the biggest hurdles this game has *always* struggled with. For various reasons. We've had tons and tons of changes implemented in game over the years, that went in "piece meal" and as a result, never actually got *finished*.

I LOVE the Plan Amon that you posted, that logic sounds great - the tiered levels and all - love it. I can't speak to how "fun" or "not" the current vs. changes is - I can't even step foot on those islands without dying and immediately getting pissed off because they are *too* chaotic for me to even consider and I haven't in actually *years*. But I can certainly understand that they are others' cup of tea and I'm thankful to have those others in game doing something I never want to even attempt to do again...

I just hope this isn't something that gets patched out partially and then another part in 8 months and then another part 6 months later and then the final bit thrown in in two years. I don't see many of these "harder-core" adventures waiting that long to see their beloved chaos returned to them, and the game would be lesser for it. What good does it in the long run to have the "best" system in place if the players that would have played it have up and quit, NOT being replaced by the same number of new players (can't really bet on that...).

These are great ideas I think, and while the change will be difficult - I requoted the above to encourage more "finished" island release when its closer to the "whole" bit being put in, and not just baby steps implemented on live. I'm not realy speaking of the tech components here, but the fights/mobs/islands themselves. Though I think if it was possible to "hold off" on the tech components with the WA being removed - I'd urge you guys to hold off - allow them to be farmed for "unusable but tradeable in for useable" tech components until the whole shebang can be implemented.

But far, far, too often we've struggled, and continue to be left with, game mechanics that were never fully implemented or finished - can we point to lairshaper as was heralded as "the way all craft schools will work in the future.." yea...exactly. Ancient size nerf? Yea I consider that an example of half-butt mechanics too (since that "unworkable" size was left in for the entire life of the game until we actually were able to be that big...)

One thing I think that people enjoy about the utter chaos with the islands is the randomness it had to offer. Predictable fights get old and boring. One reason I believe why many people miss the blight anchors is because they added a small sense of unpredictability and gave a feel of needing to respond to the threat attacking them outside of the blight.

And I totally think this is a good point/suggestion for the island revamp. I appreciate ordered chaos, but I think a certain amount of the chaos is good for that those who love the islands in the first place. I encourage "Ordered chaos" to be ordered from the DEV end (as in only such and such mobs of ABC-Q spawn here, only in packs of 2-22, from point A to a point 43 yards away..), but that the "chaos" part is still included as much as possible from the PLAYER end.

Cuz its no longer half the adventure these players want if they can walk the island and go "ok, 3 mobs there, they'll go from there to there, I"ll stand here and attack with 2351. I'll move to that hill 10 yards away, and around that corner XYZ spawns and comes from the left..."

I hope part of that unpredictableness can stay in there somewhere - even if its just a huge spawn zone for 8 mobs so you never know which combination you'll get. Even if you know "ok around in this field are 4 groups of mobs", you can never predict which combo will come up on you and in what order - or how fast.

Cuz lord knows after running 10 and 25 and 40 man dungeons in WoW, I can tell you how "non chaotic" those pulls are after the 5th time in. Not to mention the 150th, or the 400th time in.

So order it on the code side for you guys - absolutely needs to be done - but leave in some bit of chaos for population who needs it!

[Vahrokh]

And I totally think this is a good point/suggestion for the island revamp. I appreciate ordered chaos, but I think a certain amount of the chaos is good for that those who love the islands in the first place.

Imho chaotic chaos > ordered chaos.

Ordered by definition means it's structured.
Structures show patterns.
Patterns are repeating occurrances.
"Repeating" gets boring fast.
Getting boring is the bane of the adventurer.
The bane of the adventurer is lose motivation.
Losing motivation causes quitting the game.