Add falling damage client-side

[Fireclaw]

AE's explanation for why fall damage can't be implemented is that there is no server-side world model. Without the world model the server does not know that a character is "falling".

Perhaps a solution to this would be to have fall damage calculated client-side instead of server side, because there is a client-side world model. Its what causes your character to "fall" when you walk off a cliff. Fall damage could be calculated client side and then the result sent to the server to reduce the player's health.

Sure, such a system is less secure to hacking than having everything server-side, but the benefit may well outway the risk.

[Aquarius]

But then the question is how much damage will there be..

Will you die if jumping down a small mountain.. if you jump down 10 meters will you die.. will it take% of your hp or actual healthpoint/meter.. i would say hp/meter would be better since then higher lvl chars with more health could make longer jumps then. But a small toon would have to watch where they jumped from more carefully.

[Cobal]

I'd say falling damage should never kill a toon thats full health.
So no matter the amount of hp your toon has when it falls it should have at least 1 hp left.
Should be different for a toon thats not full health.
Say a mob has brought a character down to 1/4 hp and the player decides to flee.
in that case if he/she doesnt watch were they are going a long fall should be able to kill the toon.

[Korial]

One of the guidelines of MMO's:

Don't trust the client. Only accept requests for actions/movements.

Unfortunately, Hz breaks this guideline for a few aspects of the game anyway.

[Fireclaw]

One of the guidelines of MMO's:

Don't trust the client. Only accept requests for actions/movements.

Unfortunately, Hz breaks this guideline for a few aspects of the game anyway.

Exactly. Since Hz already breaks this rule, might as well take advantage of it and implement falling damage this way.

Regarding the amount of falling damage:

I think there should be enough damage to dissuade players from ignoring steep inclines and cliffs, but not enough to kill players at every fall. Maybe 10% of current health lost per 1/4 second falling. This means that a long fall could seriously injure a player, while a short fall might only cause light injury. Another option is also to have damage scale by type of fall. Perhaps a vertical fall would cause more damage than a sliding fall slipping down the side of an incline.

Having it so falls cannot reduce a player below 1 hp is also fine. Being reduced to 1 hp would dissuade most players from falling.

[evilkarl]

Bah climbing to the top of a tower and jumping off is fun. I don't want to have to heal myself or sit after or before doing this.

Never trust the client..they are evil

Instead of wasting dev time on this how about adding a world model, or making needed client enhancements such as more hotkeys bars, hotkey bar profiles, unscribable spells etc

[Fireclaw]

I think falling damage would help to add more immersion into the game. Make the gameworld more realistic and involving.

I also think that adding in a true world-model server side is beyond AE's capability and/or resources at this point. That's why I suggested doing fall damage client-side using the already existing client-side world model.

[Levity]

One of my great joys in HZ is jumping off a steep cliff. I get a small stomach-swoop feeling as if I am on a rollercoaster. It's been years since I went to an amusement park, so I miss that sensation. Yah, I'm one of the wierdos that *likes* heights and wishes I could spend days in null-g just floating, constantly falling. I adore leaping off the cliff down to the Chiconis iron refinery, or off the floating island bridges.

So it's just one of the perqs of the Gift -- we can land softly from any height. I understand why Dragons -- who need not fear a fall -- might agitate to add falling damage. I'm just as happy without it. That first time I jumped off a tower (the Spirit Tower) with the ground rushing up at me and my jump partner, my husband, whooping at me through the intercom the whole way down, is one of my precious HZ memories.

At the very least, *if* falling damage is ever added, make the towers into safe freefall zones, a side effect of their magics, so toons can still go on that thrill ride!

-Levity Merrel, Crai Aisling, Sans AoP by Aiya's pad
92 Blacksmith/63 Fitter/45 Mason/45 Carpenter/75 Reaver

[evilkarl]

If you want immersion?

How about swimming rather than walking in water
Or something easier like no loading screen

Many enjoy jumping from high things because it is cool

[Dragoniade]

The problem is who will take the damage from a fall?
Only the players, or the monsters too?

While I see the client managing it's own damage, I don't see it managing the damage of a monster falling a cliff, following the player. Especially in a group, who would be calculating the damage for each monsters.

And I'm agains't fall damage if only the players get it. It's rather unfair, that monster can already climb step cliff to attack a player, without having them not taking any damage falling the same cliff.

[Fireclaw]

The problem is who will take the damage from a fall?
Only the players, or the monsters too?

While I see the client managing it's own damage, I don't see it managing the damage of a monster falling a cliff, following the player. Especially in a group, who would be calculating the damage for each monsters.

And I'm agains't fall damage if only the players get it. It's rather unfair, that monster can already climb step cliff to attack a player, without having them not taking any damage falling the same cliff.

I was thinking that only the players would take falling damage. Monsters would take no falling damage. To have monsters take falling damage would require a sophisticated AI and world model server side that AE is not capable of producing at the moment. There is precedent for having different rules for the mobs. After all, even under the current system, mobs can already instantly scale cliffs and go through walls - something that players cannot do.

Still just because the mobs can go through walls and scale cliffs instantly doesn't mean it would also be better to have the players be able to do the same. It adds to the immersion and realism to make it so players cannot scale too-steep cliffs or walk through building walls. Falling damage falls into this same category and would thus add to the game.

[Sajid]

There were many posts on this on the old tazoon.com boards.

If memmory serves right fall damage existed for a while in BETA and was strongly advocated against. It was removed.

Fireclaw, how does your opinion tie into the fact that you can fly? I am not poking, just curious. It seems to me that fall damage is:
1) accidental falling off (recall with penalty - not so fun)
2) run waaaaaaaaaaaay around and add to the grind of whatever task is at hand

I would agree that fall damage would add a new strength to dragons, but I am not sure if that would really help the community health. Now that is pure speculation on your "immersion" logic, and I will stop at that so I don't wrongfully hijaak your thread.

[gopher65]

I see no point to fall damage. Making the game more "realistic" is not something to be desired. If I want realistic I will play the most boring game in existance, MS Flight Simulator.

Even if a majority of players think differently from me, this is such a minor minor minor minor minor minor minor issue that it shouldn't be brought up unless HZ has competely cornered the MMOG market, and the dev team is bored by having nothing to do other than create new content and making the game fun.

[thefatone]

IMH - I think it would be a great idea. Not, I agree, one that should be rushed at all, but I think it would make the game more fun. When your out exploring you actualy have to take into consideration the world around you. Paths actualy would have a purpose.

would it really be a big deal if was put it? I mean what would the big downfalls be? (pun intended)

You loose a little health while running and end up getting it back when you get to where you were going. Or, you stop and heal a little. I agree, the falls should never kill you, but a little damage would be nice.

[HratLi]

I agree that they should NEVER trust the client. It's as John Carmack says, " The Client is in the hands of the Enemy." It's pretty sloppy as is that we can run through walls and barriers before they load in. I do not fancy being at the mercy of random lag to yo-yo me up to the top of a cliff and drop me off repeatedly maybe every second for 10-15 seconds with damage each 'bounce'. If it were up to the client I would die every time I beamed into Kirasanct, one splot amidst dozens of greasy and fuzzy splots in it's basement. Or suddenly falling off the face of the planet for about 30-40 seconds before the 'floor' draws in and drags me back to the surface.

I agree it would add some sort of immersion, but without a real server side world model, it'd be a half hearted attempt, with about as much immersion as a random mob runnin up the side of a canyon, and through a building, and 17 silos to attack you while it's inside the floor of a gazebo.

-HratLi

[Fireclaw]

I agree that they should NEVER trust the client. It's as John Carmack says, " The Client is in the hands of the Enemy." It's pretty sloppy as is that we can run through walls and barriers before they load in. I do not fancy being at the mercy of random lag to yo-yo me up to the top of a cliff and drop me off repeatedly maybe every second for 10-15 seconds with damage each 'bounce'. If it were up to the client I would die every time I beamed into Kirasanct, one splot amidst dozens of greasy and fuzzy splots in it's basement. Or suddenly falling off the face of the planet for about 30-40 seconds before the 'floor' draws in and drags me back to the surface.

I agree it would add some sort of immersion, but without a real server side world model, it'd be a half hearted attempt, with about as much immersion as a random mob runnin up the side of a canyon, and through a building, and 17 silos to attack you while it's inside the floor of a gazebo.

-HratLi

If fall damage is added client-side, it should be a simple matter to add a 30-second grace period after porting during which no falling damage is taken. This should give sufficient time for the world to completely draw in so you would not take damage when fallling into the kirasanct basement.

My recollection from the discussion long ago on Tazoon.com on falling damage was that the overall conclusion from the posters was that falling damage would be nice to have in the game. I vaguely recall that a dev even responded saying so, but that due to the lack of a world model, falling damage could not be added. What I posted in this suggestion thread is a simple way to add falling damage without the need for a server-side world model (something Hz will likely never have).

[Safire]

tazoon.com was not official but i disagree fire...the last game i played had falling damage and you could asaly kill yourself if you didnt want to go the extra mile to go around alot of stuff and go down the ramp...and if your sugesting that dragons would probabally take damage from being rooted or landing to hard and/or flying into things why not just leave it alone...for xample should a saris take impact damage like everyone else...of course not cats always land on there feet and then dryads should have a simular reduction (for example a saris could jump from a tower and still have enough hp left to chage into combatdryads too) and then there would be an inbalance....you dont add stuff like that and not expect inconvienances as well...for exaple grown updragons would be the only ones who wouldent have to run an extra mile to jump off places and thats just wrong

[Aquarius]

If fall damage never would kill a player i see no reason for it to exist... if you know you can jump 100 m down and still have 1 hp.. all you need to know is that there is no mob spawn below..

I think if there should be fall damage there should be a X damage per meters of falling, that way an experienced player could make jumps further down than a complete noob, and a noob following to some dangerous place would pherhaps go splat onits face.

If there should be some danger with falling damage there should be the danger of jumping to your death, just like you might die if you walk under water too long.

Also if there should be fall damage to players i would very much like to see it to mobs also.

But right now i would rather see swiming and a true world model before falling damage. but thats just opinion.

[HratLi]

Oops... sounded like I don't want falling damage in, I DO, but not on the client side. I know your suggestion was for an easy way to add it, but the problem still remains that the client will still figure you are 'falling' even if you are not if the animation is any indication. It's pretty quirky for me, I get the falling animation walking off curbs and will occasionally freefall stepping out of the vault building, andnot even to mentionthe crazy behaviour trying to negotiate the seasonal decorations and other obsticles.

Just my 2c. This is a suggestions thread, and this is a good suggestion though! Just I disagree with the client side portion of it, which unfortunately moves it into the 'Not Likely to happen' arena.

-HratLi

[Gunnyr]

I'm a tower jumper, as well as a miner. One of the few things this game has still got going for me is lack of falling damage. Ever try taking a disc down the ramp from the top smelter of Aug mine at 14 speed? It's more sane to just cliff jump to the lower passage and walk it back (not to mention all the unintentional falls I've taken from the top (right into the bitter pickle) due to my autorun locking up).

I already take many dps from the freakin' walking dead healthbar bug, more from fall damage (1 hp from forced falling to the Pickle golems) would probably be it for me.