when will KNoCs finally get a socket aequivalent?

[imported_Twelvebagger]

A level 45 Paladin or warrior can with the swords they usually have equiped.
And if they can't? Well their class doesn't specifically say they can summon Magical swords and shield their goddess bestowed upon them.

Nor does yours say it can summon socketed items. You can summon a1 handed blade that is superior in damage to a crafted balde. You already reign king of the arcane tanks, I don't see how using a crafted sword once in a while is going to kill you.

Secondarily, pulsing is only a great tool for farming mass quantities of mobs (the usefulness of pulse increases as the number of mobs increases). You should have ample AoE to compensate for that. A paladin has to use nature nukes which hit for less damage then mage bombs.

I think your class is well balanced as it is.

But that's just my opinion.

[imported_Twelvebagger]

It seems some of you KNOC's do not get it.

When it comes to Satyr island mobs Famine, Discord, Palsy, Inhibition, EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME has to switch/equip acrystal, or switch to a weapon with the needed crystal already in place. Once the mob has been dispatched, we have to SWITCH EQUIPPED WEAPON AGAIN.

You already have the ability to do the EXACT SAME THING.

We do not run around with Talisman of Dance in our swords all the time. If we did we would do 0 damage to 99.9% of the things roaming Istaria.

Trust me when I say switching a weapon crystal in the heat of battle is tricky and potentially deadly. You switch equipped weapons with a hotkey instead, where the crystal for that island is in place already. If you are poorly equipped or unprepared, well you either run or die. Such is life on the satyr islands.

If you want to play with a Pulsing Spectrum equipped, use a normal sword like everyone else.Do the same damage as everyone else.

Sheesh

Agreed.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

Have another Drink Twelvebagger.


If you plan on going to the island to hunt you usually already have the crystal in your sword. If you don't then you deserve to waste time switching.


You get the option of placing one of the Revelry talismans or other talismans in your weapons. We gain no such option. And with a Weapon teched with Powerstrike V or other damage adding techs they can do equal damage as out summoned.

Not to mention New mobs such as Vexator make casting our main offensive ability Banish Armor useless.

And the fact there are little to no Summon spells in the game. I could have just as easily taken BattleMage at this point and been better off since I can create New Blighted superior shields and Teched Weapons.

If you don't play a KnoC then you really have no room to comment since you obviously don't know how they were or are meant to be.

While Dragons whine about everything from lairs to flight not being high enough.
You've heard very little from KnoC's.


Now no one said pulsing anythng. I even said just make the summoned able to effect those mobs only affected by the talismans according to the level of the blade. Then no other crystals need be there but the chance to damage a mob everyone else can still exsists.

Now how many Monks have been told since evasion isn't working right they should just don armor and go hunt with it on?

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Guaran wrote: We do not run around with Talisman of Dance in our swords all the time. If we did we would do 0 damage to 99.9% of the things roaming Istaria.

Agreed.

Also for the 0 damage comment. The talisman doesn't turn your damage to 0 vs all other mobs. So Guaran doesn't know what he's talking about. All it does is make your weapon able to effect the mobs.

[PJ]

Do you still play Scarn?

TG changed all mobs but Palsy/Inhibition/Discord/Famine to be immune to Dance/Revelry/Melody/Feasting Damage. If you have the crysal socketed to you do 0 damage to the regular mobs. *Note elemental attack buffs will override socketed talismans* but then you'll hurt regular mobs but not the palsy/etc.

Moving on...

Powerstrike only adds damage when you use the powerstrike ability. *note class must get the powerstrike ability*

Vexator are dangerous to all classes. Count you're blessings you're not a pure caster and have superior melee skills to defeat them in hand to hand combat. As for banish being you're main offensive weapon.... please, its only every 10 minutes, you get multistrike, etc just like most other melee schools.

Not playing a KNOC does not necessarily preclude knowledge. And I see playing a KNOC does not necessarilyinclude knowledge of one either.

And pulsing was mentioned, not by you but by meta

[imported_tjl]

You're all missing the point here. It makes no sense to me for a class that utilizes a weapon given to them by their goddess, to carry a backup weapon in case her gift fails. Thats like a catholic priest carrying a buddist statue in case his prayers don't work against a demon.

interesting take on it.

the famines/inhibitions/palsys/dischords were created by the lich king god so that could be another reason for your inability to dmg them. lorewise, it makes sense that your blade might not work on some of his creations of evil.

[Guaran]

If you plan on going to the island to hunt you usually already have the crystal in your sword. If you don't then you deserve to waste time switching.

Methinks you should go try a regular sword with a talisman equipped for awhile. Run around the satyr islands and give it a go. Go ahead and put a pulsing in there for fun too.

See what happens.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Scarn_de_Diabolic wrote: If you plan on going to the island to hunt you usually already have the crystal in your sword. If you don't then you deserve to waste time switching.

Methinks you should go try a regular sword with a talisman equipped for awhile. Run around the satyr islands and give it a go. Go ahead and put a pulsing in there for fun too.

See what happens.

Again you miss the point! This is about suggesstions for changes. If I'd have wanted to play someone that used a crafted sword. I'd have made a battle mage.

I want to see a Paladin use aspear because his 2-hand Holy sword doesn't work again several mobs in game. YES, I know Paladins don't use spears, but the class KnoC revolves around being able to summon a magical sword. Whats the use if it's ineffective against the most powerful mobs in the game.

YES I could carry a crafted sword to do it. Again thats like asking a Priest not to have faith in his cross/prayers and use something crafted by someone else.

[refuse]

YES I could carry a crafted sword to do it. Again thats like asking a Priest not to have faith in his cross/prayers and use something crafted by someone else.

Lets go on that example since you like using it.


Lets take vampires (why not mythical game requires mythical examples).

Faith (the KnoC ability to summon weapons) is only so "useful" to a priest. Ultimately they have to use the right weapon for the right situation. Holy water, faith, crosses will only do so much to a vampire. Ultimately they have to use a wooden stake (some say created by "god" and put there by "god" to do the deed") to actually stop the vampire, and then they have to use a "knife" or some other non-faith, non-cross (though I suppose they could sharpen their cross for the purpose) to cut the head off.

So perhaps it is the goddes of Istaria that released the information for the crystals that allow you to fight the specialized monsters?

Also, another example would be a priest fighting a non-European vampire (who would not have the same vulnerability to the cross that European vampries do, as well as not having all the same limitations). The European preist would find their "cross" powerless, and thus they would need to use something crafted by someone else, or at least having to adapt to the new threat that was "invulnerable" or at least not-vulnerable to their normal methods of vampire hunting.

So would a priest use something crafted by someone else? Well perhaps they craft their own wooden stakes and craft their own knives. But yeah, they would if they were fighting monsters outside their religion.

[Senkeleron Fell]

You have a mystical sword and shield.

They aren't socketed.

Your goddess didn't seem to feel that you should be altering what she gave you.

deal with it.

[imported_tjl]

Whats the use if it's ineffective against the most powerful mobs in the game.

those little green wisps that you cannot dmg with your summoned sword are NOT the most powerful mobs in the game. They are not even in the top 5. wraiths, kwellens, vexators, pretty much all of the t6 mobs, and most of the t5 mobs are much harder to kill and way more powerful (aside from the fact that the little wisps can't be damaged by normal means) You have all the nessesary means to kill them ingame now, you just have to change weapons or juggle crystals. Just like everyone else.

I wouldn't mind tugla just doing away with those wisps, or making them vulnerable to regular damage types seeing as the event that spawned them is long gone... but it does provide a tactical challenge in a group/solo situation.

[Fireclaw]

Leave KNOCs as is. They don't need a socket. What I find most odd is that KNOCs are arguing that they are LESS versatile than other classes with respect to weapon selection because unlike other classes, they don't have a socket.

In fact, just the OPPOSITE is true. KNOCs are actually MORE versatile than the other classes in this respect. EVERY class including KNOCs can choose to use a socketed weapon or shield. However only KNOCs have the EXTRA option of choosing to use a summoned sword or shield. Combine this with their ability to cast ALL mage spells, and KNOCs are one of the more powerful and versatile melee hybrid caster classes in the game.

Bad idea to give KNOCs a socket. They're already quite well balanced.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

You have a mystical sword and shield.

They aren't socketed.

Your goddess didn't seem to feel that you should be altering what she gave you.

deal with it.

rofl then I suppose the game is finished all the classes are complete and they don't need to rework anything huh?

And I suppose what your saying in effect is this minion of the Lich King enemy to all even Istaria the Goddess is umn Jewish therefore my sword won't work ehh.

[Syllis SunFlower]

Ok, just some input froma KNOC, knowing I'm gonna get flamed, probably from both sides. Yes, KNOC is a powerful class.Are we the most powerful?No. Yes, we can cast all the mage line of spells, if we multiclass with a mage class, No we cannot rez, *shrugs* neither can warriors, mages, and a whole host of other classes. Yes we have a higher damage output with our swords than unsocketed crafted swords, no we don't get sockets, parry bonus, or other techs. Yes we get a summoned shield with ethereal armor, no we don't get sockets, block bonus, or other techs. Does that put us at a disadvantage? A little. I have forsaken my heritage to carry a crafted shield for the mere purpose of having block bonus and sockets. I do still use my summoned sword for various reasons. 1) It does still do more damage when compared to any unsocketed crafted 1 hand sword in the game. 2) When crafting, it makes it easier to defend myself to have both of these options (sword and shield)on hand, and not take up inventory room. 3) Vanity. In my opinion, the summoned sword is the most visually striking sword in the game, bar none. It has a unique look that I adore. The shield as well, but I find the block bonus and sockets outweigh the little used ethereal armor and the pretty pink glow. Would I ask for changes to our summoned sword and shield? Yes. Would it be something class unbalancing? No. I would ask for parry bonus for the sword, and block bonus for the shield. Other than that, the rest would be asking for too much, in my opinion, when a KNOC already has the option of using crafted items if he/she must.

[Scarn_de_Diabolic]

YES I could carry a crafted sword to do it. Again thats like asking a Priest not to have faith in his cross/prayers and use something crafted by someone else.
Lets go on that example since you like using it.


Lets take vampires (why not mythical game requires mythical examples).

Faith (the KnoC ability to summon weapons) is only so "useful" to a priest. Ultimately they have to use the right weapon for the right situation. Holy water, faith, crosses will only do so much to a vampire. Ultimately they have to use a wooden stake (some say created by "god" and put there by "god" to do the deed") to actually stop the vampire, and then they have to use a "knife" or some other non-faith, non-cross (though I suppose they could sharpen their cross for the purpose) to cut the head off.

So perhaps it is the goddes of Istaria that released the information for the crystals that allow you to fight the specialized monsters?

Also, another example would be a priest fighting a non-European vampire (who would not have the same vulnerability to the cross that European vampries do, as well as not having all the same limitations). The European preist would find their "cross" powerless, and thus they would need to use something crafted by someone else, or at least having to adapt to the new threat that was "invulnerable" or at least not-vulnerable to their normal methods of vampire hunting.

So would a priest use something crafted by someone else? Well perhaps they craft their own wooden stakes and craft their own knives. But yeah, they would if they were fighting monsters outside their religion.

And what your saying in essence is if God gave one of his flaming swords to an archangel telling him it will smite all evil, and a Buddist Demon came upto him it wouldn't hurt him huh?

[Senkeleron Fell]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Senkeleron Fell wrote:You have a mystical sword and shield.

They aren't socketed.

Your goddess didn't seem to feel that you should be altering what she gave you.

deal with it.


rofl then I suppose the game is finished all the classes are complete and they don't need to rework anything huh?

And I suppose what your saying in effect is this minion of the Lich King enemy to all even Istaria the Goddess is umn Jewish therefore my sword won't work ehh.

You are the one using the Goddess justification to get a freebie socket.

Pick up a regular socketed weapon like every other biped in the game when it is appropriate. Lots of people don't regularly carry socketed weapons, did they whine when they needed to get a socketed one to fight in the ONE situation when it was important?

[imported_Twelvebagger]

Can anyone post the stats for the highest tiered Knoc Blade? Shield as well?

Would be a good thing to look at to see how balanced or unbalanced adding a socket would be. . .


Granted, said person seems to be approaching this from an RP standpoint instead of a balancing issue, and sometimes those conflict.

My understanding was that a KNOC blade was superior to a TECHED sword of equivalent level........


-12-

[imported_Twelvebagger]

simply put:

1. I love my summoned sword. I like the style. I like the damage output.
2. IF, only IF... we could also equip it with crystals we would really rule as the best 1H fighter in game.

I dunno how this could be coded... but something.. just something... in that direction would please me more than you could ever imagin.

In response to 2., who IS the best 1HS fighter in game then? Paladin? Warrior?

[imported_Twelvebagger]

Have another Drink Twelvebagger.

Thanks! Don't mind if I do! *burp*

If you plan on going to the island to hunt you usually already have the crystal in your sword. If you don't then you deserve to waste time switching.

Been there, don't even own the talisman, avoidance works fine for me.

You get the option of placing one of the Revelry talismans or other talismans in your weapons. We gain no such option. And with a Weapon teched with Powerstrike V or other damage adding techs they can do equal damage as out summoned.

I'm not aware of any useful damage adding techs. By useful I mean one that adds significant damage over time.

Not to mention New mobs such as Vexator make casting our main offensive ability Banish Armor useless.

Does Banish not work on vexators?
Willa socket will help you take down a vexator?

And the fact there are little to no Summon spells in the game. I could have just as easily taken BattleMage at this point and been better off since I can create New Blighted superior shields and Teched Weapons.

True, there should be more summon spells and perhaps some summoning related abilities added. But, single classed battlemages are pretty awful, and I believe you could still use the blighted shield and teched weaponry mentioned above, or can't you?

If you don't play a KnoC then you really have no room to comment since you obviously don't know how they were or are meant to be.

I have a few things to say about this but I think PJ already summed my thoughts. Whether or not I have taken KNOC has little to do with it. I have over 1200 levels, so needless to say I have a few opinions about class balancing that have been brought to the surface through several days of hunting, since that's all I do. If you choose to ignore them, that's your right.

While Dragons whine about everything from lairs to flight not being high enough.
You've heard very little from KnoC's.

That's because KNOC's are well balanced.

Now how many Monks have been told since evasion isn't working right they should just don armor and go hunt with it on?

Comparing Monks to KNOC's is a bit, err.... unfair of a comparison. Monk's are flat out BROKEN. They are probably the most unbalanced class in game at the moment. In my opinion, the KNOC isn't even on the list.


But, what do I know.

-12-

[refuse]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]refuse wrote:
YES I could carry a crafted sword to do it. Again thats like asking a Priest not to have faith in his cross/prayers and use something crafted by someone else.
Lets go on that example since you like using it.


Lets take vampires (why not mythical game requires mythical examples).

Faith (the KnoC ability to summon weapons) is only so "useful" to a priest. Ultimately they have to use the right weapon for the right situation. Holy water, faith, crosses will only do so much to a vampire. Ultimately they have to use a wooden stake (some say created by "god" and put there by "god" to do the deed") to actually stop the vampire, and then they have to use a "knife" or some other non-faith, non-cross (though I suppose they could sharpen their cross for the purpose) to cut the head off.

So perhaps it is the goddes of Istaria that released the information for the crystals that allow you to fight the specialized monsters?

Also, another example would be a priest fighting a non-European vampire (who would not have the same vulnerability to the cross that European vampries do, as well as not having all the same limitations). The European preist would find their "cross" powerless, and thus they would need to use something crafted by someone else, or at least having to adapt to the new threat that was "invulnerable" or at least not-vulnerable to their normal methods of vampire hunting.

So would a priest use something crafted by someone else? Well perhaps they craft their own wooden stakes and craft their own knives. But yeah, they would if they were fighting monsters outside their religion.





And what your saying in essence is if God gave one of his flaming swords to an archangel telling him it will smite all evil, and a Buddist Demon came upto him it wouldn't hurt him huh?

Nope, just refuting your "would a priest use an item made by another person".

If god made the flaming sword and it didn't work against the Buddist Daemon. .. .

Oh, and if you want to be argumentitive, yes it wouldn't work. Same as you are complaining about. If god made it not to work, who are you to question God! Are you implying God could be wrong by making it not work?

Then again, really what you want is people that agree with you, not provide incidents where your example didn't work.