Why am I thinking about quitting?

[Bori Grimbattle]

This is not a rant but rather a reflection on the current "State of the Game" from my perspective. Our Guild once over 50 strong is down to 5 people now.[:'(]

I can answer my title question in one word......PATIENCE!

To expound on that a bit more:

We patiently wait for the ARoP and Lairs to be implemented so things can move ahead. January has come and gone, it is now June and still those two items are not in sight and no timeline for full implementation.

As their resources are working on the above two items and it leaves little for the other items we are looking forward to.....

Furniture, buildable town assests such as lamposts, roads,artifacts,walls, resources on other Guild Isles besides Saritova and Scorpion,etc.

Regular run events, even bi-weekly or monthly. We are not that hungover from a 4 month winter festival are we?

Where is the rebuilding of Old Rachival? The Welgar? New, more involved Quests for others besides Dragons on an RoP or ARoP?

Where are the Aegis? The reworked anchors? They are supposed to be attacking us to overrun and not waiting in their proscribed areas waiting for us to come to them. Namely the ED,WD,ND...All we have are the few attacks when a Dev has a few moments in their busy schedules to put a quick town attack on.

Where are the game fixes such as road bonuses, the CTDs that lost us another longtime Guildmate, the everpresent lag, portal load times, memory leaks, etc?

Where are the class fixes for everything from Conjurer to Confectioner?

I am quite aware that TG does not like to give ETAs but this is starting to border on the point of being ridiculous. Every project, if properly planned has a tentative ETA with provisions for overruns of that ETA. I work as a Maintenance Planner and every project I plan has to have a start date and a finish date. You detail the task at hand, apply your available resources to that task and project an ETA.I then have to explain to my customers why that finish date cannot be met. Why Tulga refuses to explain to their customers on the status of various taks and an expected completion is beyond me. That is one of the easiest ways I know, from experiance, to lose customers. My lack of improper planning could cost millions per day, Tulgas lack IS costing them their player base.

So at present I, along with many others log in and grind away on a few more levels of craft and adventure PATIENTLY waiting a change. What do we get? A bridge to another werewolf Isle. To serve what purpose? To grind away another few levels. How do werewolf fit into the Lore? Are they undead? What is the reason for antiseptically placing them on an Isle or through a port?

The most excitement we have had on Order in recent times is a PLAYER EVENT. A pretty Plot contest. It at least gives us a PURPOSE to do something. Purpose...perhaps that is what is lacking in the game in its present state.

Patience......mine wears thin. Perhaps I can rephrase that as ...


Patiently waiting for a purpose.......

I patiently await for answers and I have a plan on how long I will wait.

[refuse]

I patiently wait for the straw.
I know it will come.
And I will quit when it comes.

I think you are 100% on the mark!

[Varraven]

You know, I am seriously glad for this post. I was actually about to hit the button to resubscribe today and then all this dejavu hit me...

I don't look at this as a scare-off post, but a true perspective from somebody still playing today. I really love Horizons, but I'm not quiteready to come back...just yet.

[Kwinn]

The coffin lid has room for only so many nails. While I continue to enjoy the game, or more properly the people, I continue to to search for places for additional nails. I hope I run out of nails before the lid runs out of room...

I hope you find what you need in the game soon, Bori, as I hope for the same formyself and everyone who waits for progress.

Kwinn

[Seranthor]

As I have told a few ppl that are close to me I haven't quit yet because I have a few goals left to achieve, 1900 primarly, and when I get there and if there isn't anything else for me to achieve then I'll probably take a serious look at my 'fun factor'. As it stands I haven't quit yet because I'm too stubborn to admit that I may have wasted a year of my life on HZ.

[Menkure]

Bori: You've pretty much hitthe nailsquare on the head.

Part of the reason why I haven't had a shard report out sooner is because I'm desperately seeking content to write about. It's not that there isn't anything happening at all on our shard, per se.. for there are things, such as RP events in the Kher Chet channel, as well as Ye Old Pub.I'm fearful thoughthat writing about those in the shard report may get me labeled as playing favorites.. thus I'm trying to be as neutral as I can with the subject matter.. That limits me to official events, butwith no 'Official' events happening as of late... *sigh* It's quite a dilemma.

However, on the flip side... there are some good things happening. The Tulga team is hard at work on Istaria, which is very apparent with the most recent changes to Lesser Aradoth (as seen on blight). Those changesare a blessing to those who are first experiencing the game at the lowest levels. So there is good stuff happening.

Tulga isn't Blizzard though. They are a rather small team. And as someone will probably point out later on in the thread... we need to have reasonable expectations as to what to expect from them. Still, communication is always good. And a heads up on what is around the corner would be nice.

-Menkure

[Pharcellus]

Not to seem ungrateful, Menkure, but there has been a lot of things happening on the shard over the last month or two that I think are worthy of including in the Herald report; many of which have been posted in the forums, or can be discovered by some minor inquiries in-game.

[Tantalyr]

Bori: You've pretty much hitthe nailsquare on the head.

Part of the reason why I haven't had a shard report out sooner is because I'm desperately seeking content to write about.
-Menkure

Ummm, I'm guessing that between the boards and the game you entirely missed the Prettiest Plot (and subcategories) contest.

Pardon me for saying so since I'm one of the judges, but I really think that would be something to write about as theOrder Herald. But since you think there's nothing to write about on Order now, I guess you and I disagree . . . .

[Levity]

I'll defend Menkure there -- he says he has a writeup on the contest but wants a report that talks about more than just that. He sure didn't miss it, I've been spouting off about it in Pub OOC *grin*

And on that note, the winners have been chosen, we are just apportioning prizes and will post the results in the Order forum tomorrow.

I'm so glad to have done the contest and so glad it's almost over! My poor aching feet and brain ...

On topic to this thread: I'm not going to demand anyone stay if they are not having fun, but I do regret that folks feel they want to leave. It happens that I am having fun, enjoying being with the people I've come to like so much over the past year and more. Before HZ, I scoffed at the idea of meeting people on line; in DaoC, I kept my distance from people even in my guild unless I already knew them RL.

Here, I've become as fond of my HZ friends as my RL ones. I miss the ones who have left. Maybe I'm more patient than most, or a more casual gamer. But I'm not up in arms that HZ is not giving me the immersive experience that being plugged into the Matrix might. I'm content to enjoy what's there and be pleased when new and better things are added.

Am I a fanbois? Well, no. I'm aware of things HZ is lacking. I've been playing WoW and losing track of the time while I play, what with the tons of variety of things to do. But HZ gives me what I enjoy in online-interaction, and has been a very rich experience for me. I hope that others can stick it out, or at least keep checking back for improvements that might make the game suit them better.

-Levity Merrel

[Phillip]

i been quitting on and off Bori.

if you quit for a month, you can come back and the game be good for like 3 days. really.

[Kulamata]

About the ETA's; a guess or two. In many companies where marketing/sales sets the development priorities, it is extremely common to see "thrashing" with projects deferred to move resources to another, suddenly more urgent project. The time horizons (no pun intended) are simply very different for engineering and sales. I always felt you might as well finish the project anyway, due to the put down/pick up inefficiencies. And then you have something in hand besides. From all the announcements that have had only partial follow-through, I believe this is a problem. It's usually worse in small companies too.

Yes, the guild shrinkage, and the friends lost as a result, is very disheartening. And the game has not been modified to compensate. Building projects are just as big for example.

Another issueis that somehow the people from the different pre-merge shards do not seem to have melded very well.

Andthe constant calls for taking abilities, fun, whatever, away from other players is not helping my morale. Asone nerf happens, the same people movewithout pauseto the next target. One begins to suspectthat it is the process of demanding a lynching right now! that is the game for them.

Still, the friends remaining are good friends, and that helps. Starting a dragon helps; it is a very different path. And mixing up construction, crafting, adventuring, and mentoring helps prevent burnout.

And changing topics:
Go ahead Menkure; do your best, (which will be fine!) and don't let the excellent be the enemy of the good.

[Unicorn's Lady]

Bori: You've pretty much hitthe nailsquare on the head.

Part of the reason why I haven't had a shard report out sooner is because I'm desperately seeking content to write about. It's not that there isn't anything happening at all on our shard, per se.. for there are things, such as RP events in the Kher Chet channel, as well as Ye Old Pub.I'm fearful thoughthat writing about those in the shard report may get me labeled as playing favorites.. thus I'm trying to be as neutral as I can with the subject matter.. That limits me to official events, butwith no 'Official' events happening as of late... *sigh* It's quite a dilemma.

However, on the flip side... there are some good things happening. The Tulga team is hard at work on Istaria, which is very apparent with the most recent changes to Lesser Aradoth (as seen on blight). Those changesare a blessing to those who are first experiencing the game at the lowest levels. So there is good stuff happening.

Tulga isn't Blizzard though. They are a rather small team. And as someone will probably point out later on in the thread... we need to have reasonable expectations as to what to expect from them. Still, communication is always good. And a heads up on what is around the corner would be nice.

-Menkure

Psst! Menkure, check your PMs. I did send you what little I knew about things happening on our shard a couple of days ago. [:-*]

And here's a new good development! David Bowman is now looking for input on our choices for new portals, pads, and destinations over on the Suggestions forums. Here's the link to it. http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=73245[:D]


Nellie Lovett/Ochre Tekton

[Tryagain]

well said Bori.

Patience has been an issue or more likely patience running out.

Anyway you sum up the issues pretty well. Nothing more really can be said.

[Lauryav]

hm patience, is a skill you need for playing Horizons, I think I was very patience in the last one year, but HZ gets boring for me now.

You're completly right. But dont think, we will see big changes in the nearer Future, the staff of TG is way to small. Remember Lairs and AroP were planned for last decembre.
Furniture, Racial Buildings and Lvl cap to 120 were planned for the spring.

I for myself have nearly used all the patience I had and still have for HZ, havent played since more than a week.

[imported_Leannae]

Well, it's time for me to add my 2 cents worth and say...

For the first time since coming to the forums, yes you CAN actually take what Bori said and apply it to me. Memorial Day Weekend was the kicker for me. Prime WEEKEND play hours and the MOST that was visible at any given time was under 140 players. Compound that on witnessing a dev from HZ chatting with players about the OTHER game he plays and suggested they should give it a try [:$].... pretty much told me the direction we're heading into.

I've not quit yet, but I'll admit I don't log in as much as I used to. I too am bored with it. There is no purpose. I've capped my adventure character more than once. I've built my plots completely. I've capped my crafting character many more times than needed for lack of something to do. There just is no further challenge at this point.

I already have a dragon and really have no interest in ARoP right now. Sure, it's something to do, but why grind the last 30 levels for the soul purpose of reaching an almost ancient? It's not a game anymore, it's hum-drum, mundane, boring everyday work almost to kill, kill, kill, reach a PART of a goal and sit idle again.

Like I said though, I haven't cancelled and I do still log in... just not as much as I used to. I hold onto that tiny little bity worn thread that we all do and pray.

[pan]

i recallclaims of lairsbeing done since release. everyone here has already shown patience.... what is being demonstrated by the playerbase now is, at the very least, borderline masochism.

[Dragonboy]

It is indeed funny Gopher, but if it is wise thats a different story...

It seems that in todays commerce the best way to increase profit is to fire people who have experience in stuff and thus get paid more then a beginner...

It is not just Tulga who acts like this, many companies who have managers who have to prove something to their bosses have simular problems...

I must say that now my dragon main (Rvlion) is a 100/100 all that remains is the hoard grind.
Iplayed a biped (Sslion) for a while, got a total of 18 adventure lvls and 60 craftlevels in various schools and I got annoyed by the massive grind, buying and building 1 of the smaller plots in Istaria did remove some of the grind, but its still only a small plot in Morning Light...
Its boring to constantly dig for resources, craft bricks, craft construction blocks, port 2 times and dump the stuff in my plot, recall and start all over again...

The grind is to much for me to bear as biped... So I went back to my dragon and got him to lvl 100/100 and now I force myself to craft grind my hoard to lvl 100 with mithril scales, because in adventuring I hardly get any hoardable items dropped...

I had the same problem a while back...
Then Knights of the Old Republic 2: the sith lords was released and I quit Hz for little over a month, but after finishing Kotor 2 for about 3-4 times as Jedi and Sith the fun is kinda lost...
So I returned to find playinga little more fun, but now I find myself in the same situation I was a few months ago...
Lvl 100/100/62 dragon with all quests completed including ARoP part 1...

Frankly...
I still log because I love dragons...
I still log because I wanna see my dragon improve himself...
I still log because there is no real alternative for me arround at this moment...
I still log eventhough I know there is no real challenge anymore at this moment...

Except maybe try to kill Thistleface and The Golem King solo (the only 2 I got help for in the first part of ARoP) which would be suicide simply because I dont wanna be forced into buying vengeance scales and all that other stuff, which may or may not give me an edge in battle...

I also am not sure if I really wanna keep playing anymore, also mostly because of a moreactive RL...

I really enjoyed that quest competition that was held a few months ago, maybe when they complete that rumoured quest editor I might enjoy the challenge of writing some quests...
If that would even be available for Unity players of course...

Maybe soon I will adopt myself a tiny hatchy and check out the new dragons tutorial island and if that doesnt provide any more fun its probably time to move on anyways...

[IndyMan]

nm

[Fireclaw]

I agree with Bori.

As a dragon-only player I haven't had any real reason to login for months. At max adventurer/crafter/hoard level I can't even grind levels to make myself stronger. None of the new loot gives a dragon a reason to hunt. For instance all the new set items are biped only. ARoP was originally supposed to come in December, yet its now June and only 1/3 of it is out. The pace of game improvement is incredibly slow. Barely anything has changed for dragons in the last 7 months. Major game breaking problems like memory leaks and poor client file management and graphics engine are still prevalent. No real creative quest-type major world events since the Nazderon event last year.

I continue to maintain my account hoping that Tulga will eventually get on the ball, but as the months pass with so little output from them I have gradually lost all faith in them. At the crawling pace of Tulga's development, I don't think ARoP will be released live and functional and complete until late next year. Same for lairs. Advancement to level 120 for all classes? Probably never.

I've played WoW while waiting for Tulga to add something for me to do. Unfortunately, it has become obvious that Horizons will never be even 1/4 the game experience WoW is, with its populated world, thousands of quests, exciting loot, an endgame, minute attention to detail, gorgeous graphics, very fast framerates, and quick load times.

[Goriax]

First of all, I do agree that progress goes at a snail's pace. (However, I would disagree with the statement that AROP is not in sight, seeing as how they've released the first part to production and the second to beta (i.e. Blight).)

Hwever, it appears to me that the reason for such slow progress is obvious and not much can be done about it -- particularly if you're driving away players either intentionally or unintentionally.

I would hope it's obvious to everyone on this board that HZ is a VERY marginal enterprise. We're lucky it's still running in ANY form. While I don't know the exact numbers, it's obvious they can't pay very many programmers -- my guess is they have perhaps 2-3 for EVERYTHING programming related including (or especially) fixing bugs (and those guys are obviously doing this as a labor of love -- they could probably double their income by leaving -- so I suggest not dumping on them too much). Likewise, they don't have many people for anything else. If programmers are fixing bugs they aren't working on lairs and vice versa. If game designers are working up new events they aren't working on the rebuilding of Old Rachival or class fixes (ASSUMING that they agree those classes need fixing).

Dump into the mix all the usual development problems -- it's virtually impossible to predict when a complex project will be ready for release. Murphy's Law reigns supreme in software development and many a development project has been plagued by unexpected difficulties which can cause the whole thing to take longer then anticipated. If they don't announce release dates for features nowadays all I can say is it's about time. I wouldn't either if I were them. In fact I'd have announced far fewer dates then they have in the past. They're not alone -- many major software companies avoid announcing release dates for the same reason. It's ofteneasier to predict whether it''ll rain on a particular day next month then it is to predict when a development project will be done. Announcing a date and then missing it (which will often happen unless it's released in a buggy state) is FAR worse then not announcing a date at all. I just wish they hadn't said anything about when they thought lairs or AROP would be done.

The fact is that there's FAR more that needs doing then they have resources to do it with. They are going to have to pick and choose and only a FEW things can be done. Such is life when you're a marginal operation. Someone has to make the decision on which of the small handfull of things to do and the great number of things to let slide. It's unlikely that everyone is going to agree with what they decide to do, but the decision has to be made anyway. Sure it's easy to play Monday morning Quarterback and say they should have done this or that, but they don't have that luxury -- only people posting in places like this have that luxury.

So they do what they can and try to pick the low hanging fruit where they can (i.e. things which can be implimented without a lot of effort) and knuckle down while they work on the things which will take a long time but still need to be done. Meanwhile, most things slide simply because they have nobody to work on them.

As long as they're a marginal enterprise it's going to stay that way. So unless we can convince about 50,000 people to sign up, or convince someone to dump a few million into development, I don't thinkwe can expect great strides. Yes progress will be slow. Yes there will be many things which won't get done soon if ever. Yes some projects will take far longer then expected.That's the facts of life of developing and running an MMORPG on a shoestring. They're trying to do something different from other MMORPGs for which I am thankful (I am sick to death of cookie cutter MMORPGs -- I recently stopped playing EQ2 because it was the same old same old). I for one plan to stick around and see what they do resources or no.

Sadly, many people who are used to slick cookie cutter games with a fat budget and a legion of developers can't reconcile themselves to this, which is unfortunate.