Raids and the like - Suggestions/Feedback

[Khoal]

I'd like to start a discussion about what people would like/expect from raids. You may (or may not) have noticed that we've run a few in the last several days. We've attacked places like Bristugo, Selen, Harro, and even some resource locations (Yew and Mithril got blighted yesterday).

I'd had an idea on developing pre-programmed mob raids. Here it is, again, slightly edited:

The idea is pretty simple, really. Not sure how complex it would be to code, though.

It works like this: You set up several spawn points in the countryside in the general vicinity of racial cities. At random times (extended periods of time, 24 - 72 hours let's say) and from a random spawn point, a "raiding party" of mobs is spawned. This raiding party then advances to the racial city and "patrols" around the perimeter of the city, attacking those who come within range. Old mobs could make their appearance, too (marrows, AoP, etc)

The raiding party carries much better loot than standard mobs of that tier, so there is motivation to bring them down when they're spotted. The raiding party is also composed of mobs that are tougher than the standard variety, so there is also a challenge associated with going up against them.

The mobs also have a general plan: deny players access to the target city. They first attack the perimeter of the city, killing the guards. Then, if they are not stopped by players, they move into the city and begin killing the NPCs. If players have not stopped the mob raid by the time the last NPC is killed, the travel gate (incoming and outgoing) is rendered inoperative to players, and NPCs no longer spawn. A Blight Anchor spawns over the arrival pad, and spawns an occupation force of finite sizethat hangs around the occupied city.This occupation force isreplenished on a regular schedule, so player attacks should be timed carefully.

The only way to retake the city is to destroy the occupying force and the Blight Anchor. When that is done, the travel gates are unlocked and the NPCs begin to respawn.

Kinda like a War.

[Kulamata]

I liked Snowdonia's comments about the playful events.

I also think that it's important forsome raids to be level-limited. Some time ago there was a raid and players >60 (?) were insta-ported out of the area. All the comments that I heard about that were very favorable.

Notes added a lot to the atmosphere when they were used. BUT there was never any follow-through. So I'd encourage foreboding notes, but with the boding coming to the fore.

Yeah, raids on incoming pads is not so good. Closing the pads so that they cannot be accessed was done once or twice, and is much better than immediately killing players who port in. The Titus event, (Howls in the Dark I think) was good, because most of it was between Dali and Bris.

The insta-chain-rezzing was a cute trick once or twice, but is on the way to becoming subject to the anchors' increasing difficulty problem; a cheap way to make things harder, that loses the charm of novelty fast.

Finally, some warning or scheduling. Nobody is happy to log out to find they missed the event by five minutes.(You might look back at some of the older raids; whoever (Monika??) did the warnings did so extremely well. Excellent atmosphere. ) With the warning might come some tips; how to disable combat spell effects, turn environment off, whatever. That and staying away from some towns would help lag immediately without having to wait for the new client.

{Can combat spell effects be temporarily turned off or moderated, or some other local temporary limits imposed for the event to reduce lag?}

[Tzael]

I'd like to see more frequent raids, of varying types... like one day an assault on a major town, several days later a minor incursion of the training lands, towards the end of the week a server wide announcement informs people of a boss monster roaming the lands and everyone goes hunting for it without knowing where to look. The last example might even be a case of having a WM control the boss monster to give it an edge over traditional AI ?

One thing I would dearly love to see is enactment of storyline by WM-played characters. I'm sure most remember Darkstaff on one of the shards (Expanse ?) and I always thought it was a dear shame that we didn't see that evolve further. The NPC dialogue was there, the storyline was there and unfolding before us, and there was a major storyline character being played by a real person. I don't think this is the place to bring up why that never worked out as planned, I just wanna say that I think this option should be reinvestigated because it has the potential to add immensely to immersion factor. There are only 3 live shards by way of Chaos, Order and Unity and each one has a world master so with a predefined script for the WM to loosely adhere to, I think there is definitely room for some dynamic and immersive roleplay to occur [:)]

Oh yeah, when it comes to monsters at events, variety is the key but I have to be honest, I love how those ruined shamans run in close enough to cast various debuffs then run off to a safe distance to cast their bolts, the first time I noted this behaviour I began to think I was fighting a real person lol !

[imported_Godly]

i love all idea what player say but also want to say something for loot table
yes that be nice if be possible to get old stuff like crystal, boars hide mask etc etc
because not many player have and not many player which have still play
also want to say i love dragons but he dont have any rare drop that is unfair
all bipeds have many rare " rancor,zealot,rare set jew parts and demon so i suggest if sog dont have some lets say demon claws there.
Then be nice to see something really nice from event for dragons like claws or even demon dragon part

[HAG]

1.) I like to second the thrill of the "AoP-Like" Invasions. Why not let Son of Gigaroth gather some elite undeads and wander via harro? =)

2.) The events on Unity went very good in terms of being able to prepare for. A server-wide message telling us that (f.ex.) a giant undead dragon was scouted, heading to Aughundell. We couldn't attack him though when he landed. He spoke to us, setting up an ultimatum, as we refused (naturally) and taunted him, we knew we had to prepare for fight. And soon after it, the fighting started, though giving Defenders enough time to port to Aughundell, set up properly.

3.) To vary the style of Events, here are some thoughts:
a) Let them invade a town and kill some NPCs, which stay dead after this for more than the usual spawntime.
b) Let them invade and kidnap all or some vital NPCs (like the Vaultkeeper or Consigner). We would then have to follow the retreating army of the WA and free this NPC by killing the bossmob.
c) Start more than one raid at a time, one or two being only a distraction-maneuver. Like necroflies swarming from ED to harro, spiders to Aughundell, to divert our defending forces.
(Note: This could give lower chars a chance to have _their_ event, as the higher chars would sure move to the place where the xxx (Ebon knights, Blighted Kwellen) were.
d) Or let them raid a town, being able to capture and convert the Shrines and Landing Pads, so we would have to run there, but them being able to spawn more.
e) Bring back the Anchors! Let them spawn outside some towns, sending all kinds of mobs to a town - so we would have to separate forces, one fighting the spawned mobs, one killing the Anchor(s)

4.) But most of all i like to join the line of the many be4 me - GIVE US NICE LOOT from those critters! [:D]

[Aboroth]

To expand on my idea a little bit more...

How about a waves of attacks like the kwellian, have 3 or 4 dragons come down, dont even target GIfted, to destory portals, when they die wave of kwellian will come res them, keep us busy while dragons destroy portals, then after that a wave of the new mobs at the eastern outpost will attack a city or place that we can no longer port to, when there gone we have to build the portals again.

Something like that will give a challenge, things to do, and a sense of accomplishment know we fighted off the raid and rebuilt the portals etc.

Or maybe the dragons can destroy shrines wso we cant recall lol

[Safire]

I liked the idea of the ebon army but we need warnings of this like a scout spots them 15 mins before the raid so we can prepare/get as far away as possible i like the crystle idea though.......also can you raid bristigo a little less often? and other towns instead? hehe

[EmeraldWind]

Thiking on the raids, more Imperial fortifications are needed to determine the areas of conflict and provide a sense of "being within the empire". The outpost is a good start of this, adding more structures like that for certain regions like a local garrison of imperial troops would be neat as a target for the WA raids. These structures can be placed in the empty spaces along the roads that have nothing around of interest. Would reduce lag and provide an alternative for town raids. These fortifications can range from 1-3 in defensiveness. Each higher number spawning more NPCs. And if that fort is overrun when the WA successfully assualts the fort, then have Undead guards spawned in their place.

Another element to the raids would be a recent fact of emblems for ranks. Equipping one emblem would have an effect on the AI for the mobs of the WA for the raid, for example if you had a player that was wearing a General's emblem then the mob would target that player first above all others if he is closer to that mob than any other player, but if there was a nearby player with a different rank the mob would attack then go after the general if he manages to kill that other player with the rank. If there is a lack of players for a raid, then the players that are there would be able to have NPCs help repel the raid. The empire would send ni reenforcements or you would be able to recuirt the town guards to follow you around to the mobs to fight druing the raid.

Just my thoughts for what might or should happen duiring a raid for more interaction with the empire to defend.

[Goibhnie]

Emeraldthats an excellent idea. More structures like the outpost would, could provide the initial defense for a tier area. It would be away from lag producing structures like homes and pads (which aren't in themselves lag producing, but the people that land on them are). If a raid succeds in overcoming the outpost then the group moves on to the tier area town(s) while still leaving a sizable force there at the outpost to contend with.

As far as loot goes, raids would be a great way to reintroduce crystals. The ones that I saw and picked up were very rare ones and I like that cause the fight was hard. Other loot should include comps, broken weapons, forms (new?) techs (new?).

Mobs should vary throughout all of the standard WA to the more elite things like ebony warriors. Even some vexators. As well as new mobs.
Post more soon.

[Jaraiden]

I'd like to start a discussion about what people would like/expect from raids. You may (or may not) have noticed that we've run a few in the last several days. We've attacked places like Bristugo, Selen, Harro, and even some resource locations (Yew and Mithril got blighted yesterday).

I know we've done this before, but I'd like to gather player-feedback about it. What do you like, what types of mobs did you like, what tactics did you like. And what would you like to see. Now, feel free to go nuts, but understand that some things (destroyable structures and the like) are not possible at this time.

First, I'm glad you started, well actually continued this discussion, Amon. It can't be "start" a discussion, but rather "continue" the discussion other players have started, in other posts.

First, Ineed to ask two questions.

1. Has TulgAE reviewed the original intent of the WA and their role in Horizons?

2. Has TulgAE already "digested" the numerous posts related to this topic? I know DB stated twice these posts are read, just want to be sure.

Oh, what is the progress on this, back in March of 2005?

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Amadan-TG wrote: There are plans for something for little folks in the future. And if anyone above 10 levels of those WA attack those WA... I do not envy their deathpoints =PYeahhh for Amadan!!! Great to hear. Bravo!

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]gopher65 wrote: good Amadan[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]. But make sure you make that known. For instance, Amon attacked Apia (or somewhere like that) with lvl 20-40 mobs. So of course I ran to defend it, not knowing that they were little mobs. I killed maybe a dozen before I noticed that they were dying to quickly[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]. So if you attack a place with low level mobs, make sure that is known.Ahh, the unexpected, but also the wisdom of playing your character to perceive the enemy. Perceive, attack, then evaluate the results. Much better than proceeding into a "group then aoe" stance as some may do with a weak enemy near others. That would be painful.

Some classes have to fight smart, either by player design or game design. Is good to fight smart.

Sure, could teleport the characters of players that are intent to disrupt the normal game play intended for low level characters. Hmmm, I've seen that wording somewhere, perhapsa linkZideon made (two links actually).

The WA must have some goal, some purpose for their raids and actions. Has it been determined? Again going back to original intent and design, and their evolution through post-merge Istaria.

Speaking of post-merge Istaria, how were the WA affected by the actions of the Vielo and their Novo machines. Just as the Gifted were merged into one "reality", were not the WA forces, or some of them?

Since hoard items are ALL over the place, the WA must, by definition, have looted THOUSANDS of dragon tombs near Dralk. Where are the undead dragons, armies, of undead dragons, flying undead dragons?They should be seeking their dragon cities, either due to some spark of their original being or just to fulfill their corrupted thoughts. Are not the WA using their forces? Just imagine a group of flying WA dragons taking out town portal pads and shrines. Why are they not doing that?

I think, Amon, if you answer these questions among the TulgAE staff, more will be made clear.

Snowdonia had a very good idea of non-combat WM events. Where are they? As in for the crafter inclined. Could not some Empire officials commission a series of crafting tasks,quantities of reagants, construction resources, etc. to aid the Empire? How about other events, some unexpected, as in a pack of animals fleeing the WA (WM for animals, WM for WA) and while a group "aid" the animals another group confronts the WA. Certainly, by lore, Istarian druids/rangers would be rewarded for their actions related to the animals.

I'd suggest researching your own notes - design and from reading posts players made (as DB said TulgAE reads these forums) - and formulate raids and other actions consistent with their design and earlier posts. Then "fine-tune" with replies to this topic.

Edit: Many posted about loot. This is a PvE game, but remember risk to reward. The WA won't (or should not) be walking around loaded with Essence of Blight and other goodies. They are raiding, their purpose may be for they, themselves, to loot - as in silos and other structures, maybe kill NPCs. However, they longer they are unmolested, the more loot they could have (from their own actions), but is that wise? View it from their side - would they send their own forces loaded with loot, knowing they would be killed.

And just as the Gifted can chain ressurect their own forces, so should the WA. Again, balance in a PvE world. What the characters have, eventually the Gifted will have (from their own research or more traitors among the living races).

[AmonGwareth]

I appreciate the posts. You make reference to events and there is currently a distinct difference between events and raids. Events (as we do them) are pre-planned and scheduled. Raids are impromptu sessions where we attack a town or something of that sort.

Many of the things that are described in this thread, while all good ideas, are better suited for events because many things cannot be changed on a live shard (treasure tables, new monsters, new items, etc).

I have read the posts here and will continue to re-read them to glean suggestions and possible avenues for the future. Thanks again.

- Amon

[Phillip]

Umgruk is back?

wtf.

so what, you gonna give in on thesewhiney havenots who want dragon& dryad event items from way back when?

yeah let's devalue the only truly rare treasures of Istaria.

it was a part of history, folklore that WE players made possible. those were the days. these are the artifacts of the world before the Novo machine, the world each one of us will never forget. mine was called Spirit. i was a General there. i grew up there. i was a Defender. those artifacts are the treasures that serves more than just combat, but memories of old.

but hey, the noobs wants them. doh.

c'mon devs, i have faith that you are not going to allow this. you got more backbone than this.

i want to believe.

[Helcat]

have to agree there.

Introduce new rares, as time permits.
But please, don't devalue the existing
ones. These treasureshonor moments
in time, and are special because of the
hard work that went into those events.

There will always be other treasures...

[PJ]

the old mobs may be running around during a raid, and Umgruk might drop the occasional hide, but if you recall, you needed to bring the hide to an NPC, who I doubt is coming back.

[Helcat]

if I see Ranger Ashmoor, he's a dead man...