The Real Issue

[Illi]

Thank you for the information, Carsia. In that case, be forwarned folks, NeNe is a Ruina alt, and was IN GAME TODAY. They are currently at the Fall Festival grounds. They are in game. And I retreat, back into the shadows.

[Bori Grimbattle]

In the absense of action from TG, we must protect ourselves and do what we can to protect others.

At least here we have a forum to collect data and do things to protect the community. Someone that I found out who is low enough to inquire into the age of my nephew and make note of it (just learned about that today), is a SICK SICK SICK SICK individual. And the fact that he gets off on that statement just makes it all the more gross, and all the more reason to act, even in the absense of action from Tulga.

What use is collecting the data here going to do? Posting on the forums is NOT the way to solve the issue. You HAVE to upload your logs and lodge a formal complaint through the proper channels. Then Tulga is legally bound to do something about that person and legally responsible, due to their game rating, for any repercussions coming from the player populace. If you do not provide the proof of your accusations then it is no more the heresy.

No, Tokoz, the simplest way to protect everybody is by going through the channels and submitting your proof. Nothing, of what I have seen here in the forums PROVES that he is doing something wrong/illegal/immoral/etc.

Then once that proof is in the hands of Tulga you can demand action or even take legal recourse if they do not. (in the case of sexual harrassment of minors especially)

[Tokoz]

Well obviously it's getting the word even outside of the game, if you're showing up and learning about it. :p :p :p

The boards allow us to collaborate AND encourage.

[Diagoras]

"Then Tulga is legally bound to do something about that person and legally responsible, due to their game rating"

Bori, Tulga has a disclaimer stating that the game experience may change during online play. So unfortunately it seems like they are not legally bound to act.

[Bori Grimbattle]

"Then Tulga is legally bound to do something about that person and legally responsible, due to their game rating"

Bori, Tulga has a disclaimer stating that the game experience may change during online play. So unfortunately it seems like they are not legally bound to act.

If the allegations about sexual misconduct can be proven, then yes, they are legally bound to act. The disclaimer is only for gameplay issues. A simple call to the proper authority (not sure what it would be in the US) would verify that, based on the rating of the game. It is NOT an MATURE rated game, it is rated TEEN.

[Diagoras]

I believe that the disclaimer is applied to MMORPG's so that when something occurs that would increase the games rating, such as in-game sexual comments, they could claim that we had been forewarned.

[Telpeloci]

I believe that the disclaimer is applied to MMORPG's so that when something occurs that would increase the games rating, such as in-game sexual comments, they could claim that we had been forewarned.

That is definitely the case yes. That statement is there because they can't possibly catch every occurence. Of course, morally, they are obligated to deal with every such reported offense, but legally, I don't believe they're required to do anything at all. However, if theywere contacted by a police/government official regarding such an issue, I do believe they would be a bit more inclined to do so, as has been seen with other companies in the past.

[Illi]

Actually, Ultima Online has a fairly similar ToA, and a similar rating. However, the company can, and should, take action when OVERLY suggestive themes are going on around minors. Case in point, Ultima Online auto bans anyone who uses a particular sex related word. The word means, sex by force. What this person is doing, while not necessarily forcing, is portraying sexually EXPLICIT comments on players, perhaps on minors. This is a responisibilty of the company on this issue. ESRB rated "T" games have blood, violence, suggestive themes. However, suggestive themes does not cover cyber sex. Suggestive means full bodied character models(nude of course). Horizons doesn't list Suggestive themes on their box. And if you look at the Home page for Hz, it also does not list anything inparticular for the "T"rating. Meaning, suggestive themes weren't prevailent enough to list. Take a look at MMO home page sites and find the ratings. WoW, lists specifics. Star Wars Galaxies lists one specific. Below I will include a link, to the ratings system and what they mean. Ultima Online includes no specifics, but has taken STEPS to safeguard minors, and that was their responsiblity. Yes, indeed, it IS Tulga's responsiblity to deal with this, unless they'd like to submit for re rating. There is no "M" Rating on this game, period. And they possibly could get alot of unwanted flack if a really torked parent starts ticketing.



http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings_guide.asp

[Tantalyr]

Ruina's alt, NeNe, was in New Player channel this evening trying to recruit folks to its new guild, "Oldemonic." When I questioned NeNe about the purpose of this guild, it responded "We've got seven members so far but we're going to need a lot more because we're going to take over the world." And out of the blue it sent me a guild invite. The invitation stated that NeNe's guild title was "Harlot of Passion."

*shakes head in disgust*

[Illi]

The guild is actually called "House Odemonic". And yes, NeNe was in that same channel briefly before I logged out.

[imported_Leannae]

Just found this thread after it was pointed out.

Tulga is bound by it's ownRules of Conduct to take some type of action regardless of the T rating. Rules 7,8+ 9, found in PDF format on the log in page state the type of behavior displayed is strictly prohibited. If they fail to act, then complaining about it, posting about it, talking about it, amount to a hill of beans.

Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons I don't log in anymore. Yes, Tulga needs subs, but I believe it's more detrimental to the game to keep this person around than it would be to simply ban their account. If Tulga took action based on the supplied information, this person would think twice before causing such ruckus again but by not taking a disciplary action, Tulga gives the signal that it's acceptable behavior and the person continues.

I'd be more prone to push Tulga to stand up against this type of conduct rather than try and rally for community involvement to change this person. Players cannot force players to do anything. Tulga on the other hand can.

my 2 cents

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Ruina's alt, NeNe, was in New Player channel this evening trying to recruit folks to its new guild, "Oldemonic." When I questioned NeNe about the purpose of this guild, it responded "We've got seven members so far but we're going to need a lot more because we're going to take over the world." And out of the blue it sent me a guild invite. The invitation stated that NeNe's guild title was "Harlot of Passion."

*shakes head in disgust*

*wonder if its then considred harrassment if we go*

"Ruina go away, we know its you..." :) and then warn all the new players why they need to stay away from them...

[imported_Leannae]

*wonder if its then considred harrassment if we go*

"Ruina go away, we know its you..." [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img] and then warn all the new players why they need to stay away from them...

I do know it goes against the Rules of Conduct to organize or participate as a member of any guild or group within the Game that is ahate-related philosophy. (11 in the PDF Rules of Conduct)

That action would make the community no less guilty than the person they are upset about. Basically, lowering yourselves to their level.

You pay Tulga to provide a service. You pay Tulga to provide a fun atmosphere. Unless constantly going on and on about issues that you as a player have no control over, is considered fun... My best suggestion is toflood Tulga with complaints until the issue is resolved.There will always be one person who will try and push the edges of the envelope. Without any fear of repercussion, enabling the behavior is the clear message and people will continue to push. Is it seriously worth 1 -12.95$ a month subscription to have so many upset and lose the fun aspect of the game?

[imported_Frith-Rae]

is her guild based on hate? Not sure where your first point came from....

Other than we want ot take over the world - not sure how that can be construed as a hate philosophy or not :).

But IS pointing out that NeNe is Ruina's alt, and that we know it is - lowering us to his level? That to me no...

Talking about the known actions of a player to another player - well that's gossip, wether it makes us lowered to his level...only your call.

But yes I do agree, Leanne, the only thing that will get anything done is to log and report.

Which is what I've always said. Log and report, log and report...log and report.

If you're not willing to do those things, you don't have a leg to stand on...

[Tokoz]

Or a log to stand on as the case may be. I'm told that TG will accept a screenshot of the chat window in place of a log. So... for those that can't get their parser to work (mine died. :p), just expand the chat window and press f12. :)

Smile for the birdie. :)

In addition to collecting logs: Warning have been going out over the New Player channel, and steps have been taken by the community to keep a constant eye on as many Ruina alts as we can.

This game has a community like no other. TG doesn't need to ban if he can't get satisfaction anyway. :p

[Kwinn]

.
Smile for the birdie. :)

Now thats funny I don't care who ya are!

[Sen of Order]

Tulga has taken some sort of action according to what was told me.

What that action was, and the results, the individual could not legally say.

I do not give the name of my source because I don't know if that would be authorized. (Makes elaborate effort towards non-disclosure of irrelevant information while trying to provide the pertinent)

This was as of last Monday, Oct 31, 2005.

[Tokoz]

I received an email directly from Ruina saying that he no longer plays Horizons. I have good reason to believe that both the Ruina and Neelah accounts have been cancelled.

It's safe for now.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

I received an email directly from Ruina saying that he no longer plays Horizons. I have good reason to believe that both the Ruina and Neelah accounts have been cancelled.

It's safe for now.

well unless your reason came from someone OTHER than Ruina saying they don't play anymore....

I'll let time tell to make sure :).

[Tokoz]

well unless your reason came from someone OTHER than Ruina saying they don't play anymore....

I'll let time tell to make sure [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img].

A little doubt is a healthy thing in this case I'd say. :)