Tokens for plot reclaims?

[velveeta]

Xenophobia is a fear or contempt of foreigners or strangers and people (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia). Tokens/no tokens <> Xenophobia.

are you saying that because i advocate no-trump tokens, i am xenophobic?
wow, if that is the case, that's a pretty huge assumpation......
because i don't buy the 'i couldn't play so i should get something for my mental anguish' theory, i am against unity?

thanx for pointing out the flaws in my thought process.....

[awdz]

interesting take... i thought he was making the point that although it is not, the direction the thread was going made it begin to seem that way.

so many ifs to the issue... if the transfer can happen, if plot reclaim happens (i know it's just a matter of time), if there are too few plots for the number of players crowding the server... makes it seem like actually have this be a real problem would be a good headache to have? whatever happens, good luck working it out, virtrium!

[Oakleif]

Velveeta, <> is the computer symbol for "not equal to". He was saying that whichever side of the debate you are on, it ISN'T xenophobia.

[velveeta]

o i c!!! my most sincere apologies for my misunderstanding!
its the last thing i need to do, after all!

next time i am unsure, i will ask for clarification, i promise!

[TelShyia]

Well, I agree with everyone! There! Does that make everyone happy? Thought not! J/K
I agree, lets lock the thread. Nothing left here to discuss.
Tokens are fair. Tokens are NOT fair.
Good Luck Vi! *hands the devs and everyone else a BIG bottle if Advil*
I am sure that what you come up with will be (at least I hope) fair to all.
Telshyia - Ancient Chaos Dragon
100/100/100

[Zexoin]

I know I've said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore, but I learnt something new and I need to say it.
I thought that having a token would allow you to outbid any money bid on ANY plot. I was told it's not true ; that you automatically win the bids on the plot you owned before the "merge", and on that one only. That if you put your token on any other plot, only the coin value of your token will matter, and if some other player put a higher value of coins, he would win the auction.

If that's the case I agree with Unity players having a token.

[Takora Drakan]

I know I've said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore, but I learnt something new and I need to say it.
I thought that having a token would allow you to outbid any money bid on ANY plot. I was told it's not true ; that you automatically win the bids on the plot you owned before the "merge", and on that one only. That if you put your token on any other plot, only the coin value of your token will matter, and if some other player put a higher value of coins, he would win the auction.

If that's the case I agree with Unity players having a token.

With that solution I can live, I just want my lair back that I had on Unity.

[velveeta]

I know I've said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore, but I learnt something new and I need to say it.
I thought that having a token would allow you to outbid any money bid on ANY plot. I was told it's not true ; that you automatically win the bids on the plot you owned before the "merge", and on that one only. That if you put your token on any other plot, only the coin value of your token will matter, and if some other player put a higher value of coins, he would win the auction.

If that's the case I agree with Unity players having a token.

i have absolutely no prob with this!

[LaughingOtter]

I thought that having a token would allow you to outbid any money bid on ANY plot. I was told it's not true ; that you automatically win the bids on the plot you owned before the "merge", and on that one only. That if you put your token on any other plot, only the coin value of your token will matter, and if some other player put a higher value of coins, he would win the auction.

Not quite.

When the tokens were used at the merge auction, any value token trumped any value of cash bid. Nobody won automatically, though. If you bid your token on the plot that you used to own pre-merge, your token trumped everything but another previous owner bid. If there were multiple previous owner bids on the same plot, one of them was picked at random by the system as the winner.

So, yes, if the same system is used, a 49sp token will beat any cash bid of any size. That's the point of the token system - to enable landowners who had lost their property in the merge to have priority over players who had not been property owners.

This situation is a bit different and I think there are good reasons to modify the token system if it is used. Someone who had owned a 1sp property in a guild community, for example, can't be compared to someone who paid full price for a regular plot. As supportive as I am of Unity players in general, I can't see a 1sp guild plot token as a valid bid for a regular plot. However, there are still active guilds who own guild communities, all of whom are going to have properties going up for sale.

Limiting token bids to use on properties of equal or lesser value and allowing previous owner bids to automatically trump would prevent the 'low-token land grab' scenario while still giving Unity players priority in claiming a replacement property.

BTW, Gopher, you can't just make a 1sp bid in the auction. Your bid has to be at least the base value of the plot.

[Guaran]

This situation is a bit different and I think there are good reasons to modify the token system if it is used. Someone who had owned a 1sp property in a guild community, for example, can't be compared to someone who paid full price for a regular plot. As supportive as I am of Unity players in general, I can't see a 1sp guild plot token as a valid bid for a regular plot. However, there are still active guilds who own guild communities, all of whom are going to have properties going up for sale.

But those players who own say a guild subplot that was a placeholder value of 1sp, might still own the same guild community they won when moving from the prior servers in the first merger. Therefore you cant just assume their token would only have a 1sp "value".

They Had who knows what plot(s) prior to the first merger. Their plot token along many other guildies tokens were all applied towards the Guild community "Master Plot". Once they won, the subplots were parceled out as the guild saw fit. 1sp is simply a placeholder value more than anything. And those players may very well have had full plots prior to the original merge.

One possible solution in these cases would be to limit guild "subplot" tokens to be used towards guild master plots. Perhaps win back a guild community. But using the raw value would not be fair at all. That, or giving the token the same "value" that the particular size of the plot warrants (in the newer high priced amount). Those are the only possibly fair solutions in those cases I can see.

Correct and that is the purpose of the discussion, merely to bring to light that such a system would/could be detrimental to current players, so that WHEN a decision is made, both perspectives can be taken into consideration, and hopefully, the most equitable, least damaging method can be implemented.

Having token beat cash bids is detrimental to NO ONE. I firmly believe this is all moot anyway, there are plenty of plots, regardless of myself or anyone else's ability to "prove" it.

[gopher65]

They Had who knows what plot(s) prior to the first merger. Their plot token along many other guildies tokens were all applied towards the Guild community "Master Plot". Once they won, the subplots were parceled out as the guild saw fit. 1sp is simply a placeholder value more than anything. And those players may very well have had full plots prior to the original merge.

This is what my guild did. We were a fair sized guild and put multiple gold worth of tokens (including mine) onto a guild plot and won it. I 'lost' the value of that token when I sold my guild plot back for 1 silver and bought a new, non-guild plot.

But I think this is unavoidable. Anytime anyone chooses to leave their guild plot they are losing the value of that a token they spent there.

[TelShyia]

Having token beat cash bids is detrimental to NO ONE. I firmly believe this is all moot anyway, there are plenty of plots, regardless of myself or anyone else's ability to "prove" it.

Just how in the heck can you say that with a straight face! as i stated before, and now looks like i have to state again, you have prime real estate. VERY easy for you to say that. but those of us, whom for what ever reason, CHOOSE to be guildless (and you all know my reasoning for that), have WORKED HARD, HARD HARD to be able to get to a point that we can FINALLY get the large plot that we have DREAMED about for YEARS! To allow someone to take that away, even if it is one of our Unity friends, just because they have a 'token' that can outbid ANY amount of silver/gold/mith we can afford to put on a bid is NOT right, NOT fair, regardless of the situtation!
If there are PLENTY of plots, how about you show me ONE just ONE little ole 100x100 that is open! I'ld be glad to go plunk down what it costs to buy it right now!
Yep, there are PLENTY of plots... NOT...plenty of ones that players have done NOTHING with, not playing anymore, or took advantage of the fact that they could have mulitple toons / accounts (without paying) have bought up good areas, and then left the game when they had to start PAYING to play!
I know of several in Pars and a few in other places that fit this bill!

geez...kill this thread......pls

[TelShyia]

ps. All this bickering about this is really silly. No one but Vit knows what they are going/planning to do. If they give them tokens, then they give them tokens. And, if there are plenty of plots as you stated, then no need for tokens is there?

[Guaran]

Just how in the heck can you say that with a straight face! as i stated before, and now looks like i have to state again, you have prime real estate. VERY easy for you to say that. but those of us, whom for what ever reason, CHOOSE to be guildless (and you all know my reasoning for that), have WORKED HARD, HARD HARD to be able to get to a point that we can FINALLY get the large plot that we have DREAMED about for YEARS! To allow someone to take that away, even if it is one of our Unity friends, just because they have a 'token' that can outbid ANY amount of silver/gold/mith we can afford to put on a bid is NOT right, NOT fair, regardless of the situtation!
If there are PLENTY of plots, how about you show me ONE just ONE little ole 100x100 that is open! I'ld be glad to go plunk down what it costs to buy it right now!
Yep, there are PLENTY of plots... NOT...plenty of ones that players have done NOTHING with, not playing anymore, or took advantage of the fact that they could have mulitple toons / accounts (without paying) have bought up good areas, and then left the game when they had to start PAYING to play!
I know of several in Pars and a few in other places that fit this bill!

geez...kill this thread......pls

Tel I fear that if cash beats all, there will be a few players who end up controlling all those 100x100 plots. Unless you've got 500+ gold saved, you're going to wind up dissapointed.

[Creme]

o i c!!! my most sincere apologies for my misunderstanding!

Is np

I knew what you were getting at and that I should have phrased the whole formula thing a bit better

Tel I fear that if cash beats all, there will be a few players who end up controlling all those 100x100 plots. Unless you've got 500+ gold saved, you're going to wind up dissapointed.

Supposition and most likely groundless as I don't imagine many, IF ANY, players have access to that kind of coin.

Seems to me like it seems to be a common bent on this thread to try and generate paranoia over someone buying up all the large properties in game.

Again, someone would need 1 heck of a lot of subs to do so, and I very much doubt that any player, even if they had that kind of coin to throw around per plot could possibly find enough players to add the subs to purchase them.

[tramsan]

You imagine wrong. Not long ago I had 300g tossed at me in a trade as if it was nothing. The trade popped up just as I was recalling, so it was cancelled before I could react either way, but 300g it was. I have no doubt this was obtained illegitimately and that there was plenty more where that came from. Where there's one cheater, there's more.

[Vermithraxx]

lol, reminds me a problem we were having with a griefer on Chaos a while back. This person insisted that "group A" couldn't have killed "x cluster" of mobs legally, it just wasn't possible, they had to be cheating, etc.

Folks, just because you personally might lack the skill, dedication, or (most importantly) the play time, don't ever mistake that somebody has to be 'cheating' or gaining 'illegitimately'. This game is *easy*. Given time and, perhaps, a group of players working together (a guild?), anything is possible.

Getting back to the thread...

Seems to me like it seems to be a common bent on this thread to try and generate paranoia over someone buying up all the large properties in game.

Again, someone would need 1 heck of a lot of subs to do so, and I very much doubt that any player, even if they had that kind of coin to throw around per plot could possibly find enough players to add the subs to purchase them.

Bingo.

For instance, Guaran and Laughingotter... I hear you're fairly established in the game and own property. Are you, personally, planning on buying up all those 100x100 plots, giving up the land you own, and keeping them?

My thought is that any person or guilds already in the game and that well established with that much cash has their plots/lairs/communities already carved out.

Mind you, I'm skipping the novian paranoia. Far as I'm concerned they're welcome to the novians. So long as the lair gets back on the market, I'm happy.

But buying up all the plots in the game and... what? finding a cadre of slaves with subs to hold onto them? If you, personally, have such a plan, please refute my skepticism (And if a really huge lair is on the world domination list, let me know where I sign up. <ahem>)

[velveeta]

You imagine wrong. Not long ago I had 300g tossed at me in a trade as if it was nothing. The trade popped up just as I was recalling, so it was cancelled before I could react either way, but 300g it was. I have no doubt this was obtained illegitimately and that there was plenty more where that came from. Where there's one cheater, there's more.

well, it may have been, tram, but there are indeed at least 2 alts on blight that are multi gpaires......just last week one of them made more than 600 gp with the leftovers of a quest s/he was doing. it is very very rare, tho, at least on blight - but it is certainly not inconcievable that someone would have a significant amount of disposable income. it is much easier on blight, as we do not have a market economy.

personally, tho, i have asked santakindle for a mith coin for gnomekindle....not that i have anything to spend it on, just because it would be kewl to have on!!!

[Vermithraxx]

well, it may have been, tram, but there are indeed at least 2 alts on blight that are multi gpaires......just last week one of them made more than 600 gp with the leftovers of a quest s/he was doing. it is very very rare, tho, at least on blight - but it is certainly not inconcievable that someone would have a significant amount of disposable income. it is much easier on blight, as we do not have a market economy.

personally, tho, i have asked santakindle for a mith coin for gnomekindle....not that i have anything to spend it on, just because it would be kewl to have on!!!

Ummm, being blight, somebody check me on this... if I wanted a quick Mithril, couldn't I save up a little cash, like 50gp, and then (copy, delete) x 20? I have 2 copies of myself on Blight right now (ancient and non) so I could combine resources, delete one, ad infinitum?

[Guaran]

I've been offered 500g for my boars mask (refused), and know of player with more than 1 mithril. (What else was there to do during the EI dark times).

Believeing that gold alone is the fair way to auction plots is naive. Unitarians lost all the same prime plots people seem to want. If they have a token from say "prime plot #1", I think it's perfectly fair that token gets them their plot back regardless of any cash bid.

It's a good gesture on Vitriums part to those players. That player might turn around and decide he wants a lair, but at least then he had the choice. And someone else will get the property.

Anyone who thinks this is not fair to existing chaos players. Then what is? I've said before there is no perfect solution. I still believe the token system to be the "most fair" option. And after thats all settled and regular reclaims begin, plots will continue to open up over time.

I also believe certain plots could have their size enlarged to co-incide with the auction-reclaim. For example Sable shore just west of bristugo has a beautiful view, but the plots are small and unsold. Same for the plots on the other side of the water there on the east side of Lesser Aradoth. Lots and lots of beautiful locations that a simple size increase would make them much more desireable. Guilds could buy up all the plots there, or in say lerena, etc. And make nice guild communities out of regular settlements.

Everyone is worrying about nothing....