Talk to the Team: Dragon Schools: New Schools

[SuHuz]

On improved primal cast,instead of lower cd id change to add one more attack (like multicast IV)

You're right it would be better, but I'd also like it to compete with Gold Rage X, so let's try another version:

-> Improved Primal Cast:
Effect: adds 3 extra attacks (spells only)
Cooldown: 4:00

On primal roar,you forgot it currecntly makes spells do 104% damage,yours could have maybe 105,106?

-> Primal Roar VI:
+275 Power
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)
Does 105% of normal damage (spells only)

-> Primal Roar VII:
+300 Power
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)
Does 106% of normal damage (spells only)


I've also forgotten to say that only one of the 3 schools could be selected.

[Guaran]

Here's my idea, also inspired by others' ideas already mentionned in this topic:


New Schools:
-Conqueror (CONQ)
-Primalist (PRIM)
-Balanced Dragon (BDRA)




Requirements:
-Ancient Dragon (ARoP requirements)
-Every ability quests done
-Primal Cast quest done




Effects:


-Instead of adding a new school, it would replace the DRAG school and directly go to Lv 100.




Abilities:


(What is mentionned is what is modified.)


-CONQ:


-> Path of the Conqueror:
+100 Strenght
+100 Dexterity
+100 T&C


-> Improved Breath of Lightning:
Damage: 200-250
Dispell strenght: 600
Hoard cost: 150


-> Determination VII
+220 Strenght
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)


Unlocked quests:


-> Gold Rage VIII
Cooldown: 55 secs
Hoard cost: 3750


-> Gold Rage IX
Cooldown: 50 secs
Hoard cost: 4250


-> Gold Rage X
Cooldown: 45 secs
Hoard cost: 5000


-> T&C Lord (Improved T&C Master)
+10 Damage (delay adjusted)




-PRIM:


-> Path of the Primalist:
+100 Power
+100 Focus
+100 Primal


-> Improved Breath of Ice:
Damage: 150-175
Effect Ice Breath: Incoming flame damage does 150% of normal damage / Modifies delay by 150%
Hoard cost: 150


-> Primal Roar VII:
+300 Power
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)


Unlocked quests:


-> Improved Primal Cast (=Primalist Gold Rage)
Cooldown: 2:30


-> Primal Lord (Improved Primal Master)
+10 damage (delay adjusted)




BDRA:


-> Path of the Balanced:
+100 Health
+50 Strenght
+50 Dexterity
+50 Power
+50 Focus


-> Improved Breath of Acid:
Damage: 175-225
Effect: Extra damage 125-175 (DoT)


-> Determination VI:
+200 Strenght
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)


-> Primal Roar VI:
+275 Power
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)


-> Refreshing Breeze VI:
Cooldown: 2:00
Hoard Cost: 200
Effect: Heals 300-350 (HoT)


Unlocked quest:


-> Healing Master (Improved Healing Expert)
Increase heals by 10-40




Common ability:


-> Dragon's Gift VI
+110 Primal
+110 Magic Evasion
+110 Evasion
+110 T&C




New items:


-> Formula: Master Dragon Claw Repair
OR
-> Formula: Master Lesser Gem-Tipped Dragon Claws


-> Spiked Ruby Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+50 Strenght
+50 T&C
Requirement: CONQ


-> Spiked Sapphire Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+50 Power
+50 Primal
Requirement: PRIM


-> Spiked Diamond Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+25 Strenght
+25 T&C
+25 Power
+25 Primal
Requirement: BDRA


2 or 3 tech slots for each.




As a consequence, every existing Dragon items would take the requirement DRAG/CONQ/PRIM/BDRA.




What do you think ? Is it good idea ? What would you add, change or delete to make it better ?

I like the idea's of crafted t6 claws. I like the idea of the Balanced class, which seems to be an extension of the current dragon class. I like the ideas of better versions of the elemental breaths, not sure about limiting those to particular schools... none of them are 'tied' to t&c or primal, they are powered by the Dragon Breath skill, which you sorta left out.


The stats on the claws, on the Path of Conqueror, etc. all seem too small to make much difference. The path of conqueror for example, I would increase them all to values between +250 at a minimum to up +400 on each, add +Dragon Breath of the same value. The +Dragon Breath skill of say +400 should be present in all three schools, since Dragon Breath is it's own skill. The idea behind the larger stat boosts is that it will strengthen all the existing attacks a dragon has, and lets him or her further specialize in melee combat. The higher versions of Gold rage would probably not be needed with a sufficient boost to str, dex, t&c. The T&C Lord with +10 Damage delay adjusted should be upped to say +40 damage delay adjusted. This would apply to all claw attacks, so it would increase damage on Blood Talon, etc., and might make the t6 claws un-needed as well. T6 claws would fit in with the Proceless weapons, however dragons have t6 scales, which is up to 10 pieces of gear. (For comparison) bipeds have 7 jewelry t6 pieces plus a weapon, or a weapon + a shield. So there's already an approximately equal amount of t6 gear out there, so the claws aren't really needed imho. You also wouldnt want to outdo by too much, the Demon Claw and Blood Talon, which are supposed to be Epics, and the crafted t5 claws can already exceed them when you use the claw techs or andoors, etc. T6 claw would further push them into the undesirable range, not good for Epics. The varying stats on the claws are not necessary really either. We can put that into the Path of the Conqueror as I decribed above. Same general thoughts about the Primal class as well.

You're right it would be better, but I'd also like it to compete with Gold Rage X, so let's try another version:


-> Improved Primal Cast:
Effect: adds 3 extra attacks (spells only)
Cooldown: 4:00


-> Primal Roar VI:
+275 Power
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)
Does 105% of normal damage (spells only)


-> Primal Roar VII:
+300 Power
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)
Does 106% of normal damage (spells only)




I've also forgotten to say that only one of the 3 schools could be selected.

You mentioned that it would replace the existing class... If you mean that once a dragon picks one of these options and it becomes permanent, I would not be in favor of that. If the dragon can swap classes between these 3, then I think it or something similar could be doable. I don't like that anything would be permanent.


************************************************** ***************


I made a simpler suggestion that accomplishes basically the same thing. A higher Determination and Primal Roar, which would add +400 values vs the current +200ish ones. The Ancient Primal Roar and Ancient Determination would not stack with each other or with the current t5 ones, but a Dragon can have both abilities in the character tab, alongside the current Determination and Primal Roar. Basically choosing which to use puts the player into that specialized combat style, or by using the old versions of those abilities can choose to stick with their current playstyle and build.


The balance is achieved by linking timers 100% with Gold Rage, for the Ancient Primal Roar. If dev's so decided for balance reasons, could also link the timers to Ravage and a few other dragon melee attacks as well. So for a nice, viable, spellcaster playstyle, the dragon gives up Goldrage, Ravage, etc. But gains +400 power, +400 Primal, +400 Dragon Breath, +250 spell attack skill. The timer for Ancient Primal Roar could be 60 minutes, and it could set backwards by 60 minutes the melee abilities' timers that the dev's decide should not be given to the spellcasting player. Also or alternatively to the timers being shared, the Ancient Primal Roar could have -400 T&C, -400 Strength. That would also limit the melee attacks as well. I would leave tailwhip and drain strike alone though, so the spellcaster has some small defense.


Then simply use the flipside for an Ancient Determination. +400 t&c, +400 strength, +400 Dragon Breath, +250 attack smill, -400 primal, -400 power. I would say it shares a timer with dragon spell abiltiies as well, but we don't really have any. Adding some new spell abiltiies (not spells) that could then be made unavailable by sharing timers would balance it, along with making a real spellcaster dragon a possible and viable option.

New spell abilities:

Primal Blast VII
2 Extra Attacks
+70 Attack Skill
500% Damage Adjustment
Automatically hits
Delay 20
Range 35
Hoard cost 3300
Recycle 1:00
shares timer with Gold Rage for 60 seconds

Target Effect: Blinded VII
Modifies delay by +5%
Modifies recycle by +5%
-20% Chance to hit melee
-40% Chance to hit ranged
lasts 60 seconds

Primal Evisceration III
4 Extra attacks
Delay 20
Range 35
Hoard cost 250
Recycle 1:00
shares timer with ravage for 60 seconds
Level 87

The new spell abilities could be quested and come in lower tiers which would allow a Dragon to play as a spellcaster from a young age. Their timers would be shared for 60 minutes with Ancient Determination, and would therefore be unusable if a Dragon uses that ability.

The Hybrid class would just keep using both of the older t5 versions of Determination and Primal Roar, which would continue to stack with each other as they do now. They could use both the new spell abilites as well as Gold Rage, Ravage, however they do share timers with each other, so it would be one or the other.

I am undecided if + and/or - to Focus and Dexterity is really needed, since those are already low to begin with.

[Guaran]

The new buffs (since edit timer ran out)


Ancient Primal Roar
Delay 80
Recycle 0:05
Range Self Only
Target Effect Ancient Primal Roar


+400 Power
+400 Primal
+250 attack skill spells only
+400 Dragon Breath
-400 Tooth & Claw
-400 Strength


Duration 60:00


Does not stack with Determination V, Primal Roar V, Ancient Determination


Ancient Determination
Delay 80
Recycle 0:05
Range Self Only
Target Effect Ancient Determination


+400 Strength
+400 Tooth&Claw
+250 attack skill melee only
+400 Dragon Breath
-400 Primal
-400 Power


Duration 60:00


Does not stack with Determination, Primal Roar, Ancient Primal Roar

[ArchDemon]

Here's my idea, also inspired by others' ideas already mentionned in this topic:

New Schools:
-Conqueror (CONQ)
-Primalist (PRIM)
-Balanced Dragon (BDRA)


Requirements:
-Ancient Dragon (ARoP requirements)
-Every ability quests done
-Primal Cast quest done


Effects:

-Instead of adding a new school, it would replace the DRAG school and directly go to Lv 100.


Abilities:

(What is mentionned is what is modified.)

-CONQ:

-> Path of the Conqueror:
+100 Strenght
+100 Dexterity
+100 T&C

-> Improved Breath of Lightning:
Damage: 200-250
Dispell strenght: 600
Hoard cost: 150

-> Determination VII
+220 Strenght
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)

Unlocked quests:

-> Gold Rage VIII
Cooldown: 55 secs
Hoard cost: 3750

-> Gold Rage IX
Cooldown: 50 secs
Hoard cost: 4250

-> Gold Rage X
Cooldown: 45 secs
Hoard cost: 5000

-> T&C Lord (Improved T&C Master)
+10 Damage (delay adjusted)


-PRIM:

-> Path of the Primalist:
+100 Power
+100 Focus
+100 Primal

-> Improved Breath of Ice:
Damage: 150-175
Effect Ice Breath: Incoming flame damage does 150% of normal damage / Modifies delay by 150%
Hoard cost: 150

-> Primal Roar VII:
+300 Power
+200 attack skill (chance to hit)

Unlocked quests:

-> Improved Primal Cast (=Primalist Gold Rage)
Cooldown: 2:30

-> Primal Lord (Improved Primal Master)
+10 damage (delay adjusted)


BDRA:

-> Path of the Balanced:
+100 Health
+50 Strenght
+50 Dexterity
+50 Power
+50 Focus

-> Improved Breath of Acid:
Damage: 175-225
Effect: Extra damage 125-175 (DoT)

-> Determination VI:
+200 Strenght
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)

-> Primal Roar VI:
+275 Power
+180 attack skill (chance to hit)

-> Refreshing Breeze VI:
Cooldown: 2:00
Hoard Cost: 200
Effect: Heals 300-350 (HoT)

Unlocked quest:

-> Healing Master (Improved Healing Expert)
Increase heals by 10-40


Common ability:

-> Dragon's Gift VI
+110 Primal
+110 Magic Evasion
+110 Evasion
+110 T&C


New items:

-> Formula: Master Dragon Claw Repair
OR
-> Formula: Master Lesser Gem-Tipped Dragon Claws

-> Spiked Ruby Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+50 Strenght
+50 T&C
Requirement: CONQ

-> Spiked Sapphire Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+50 Power
+50 Primal
Requirement: PRIM

-> Spiked Diamond Tipped Dragon Claw:
Damage: 61-84
+25 Strenght
+25 T&C
+25 Power
+25 Primal
Requirement: BDRA

2 or 3 tech slots for each.


As a consequence, every existing Dragon items would take the requirement DRAG/CONQ/PRIM/BDRA.


What do you think ? Is it good idea ? What would you add, change or delete to make it better ?

I like it.. Just add some Armor to the Conqurer, Primalist, and Balanced. like 75, 25, 50 or what ever :P other then that More health would be nice too! other then those two I like it! just set GR 8 CD to 60, GR 9 to 55 then set GR 10 to 50.

[Calyndrell]

LOL I love the fact everyone is reducing the cool down on GR and presumably making it more powerful, thats just not gonna happen. And honestly I very much doubt there will be another attack introduced that comes close to rivaling GR in power. I think whats needed is variations not just old abilities rehashed.

Just my two cents

[ArchDemon]

LOL I love the fact everyone is reducing the cool down on GR and presumably making it more powerful, thats just not gonna happen. And honestly I very much doubt there will be another attack introduced that comes close to rivaling GR in power. I think whats needed is variations not just old abilities rehashed.

Just my two cents

just trying to reduce it a tiny bit.. also this blue text really makes my eyes burn i have a sezure disorder and it really hurts to look at the usernames and fourms in general x.x

[Aekaitz]

I think my biggest gripe right now with the current setup is the lack of variety. Melee has the most attractive playstyle (for me, at least) with the wider range of abilities and attacks. And even those are only swat this, breathe on that. The spells we have are very bland and not super damaging (at least in my experience. I can only imagine component hunting as a spellcaster in the current state.)

Now I'm normally drawn to spells and spellcasting in all MMOs I've played, but the dragon spellcasting just doesn't cut it.

The effects don't really vary the spells at all. And the spells are more like copies of each other with slightly adjusted damage and range. I've seen some biped casters in action, and it looks much more appealing than a dragon spellcaster. We also don't have enough spells to really be effective as a full spellcaster. Not counting the breat abilities, since all endgame scales have dragon's breath stats, melee have 9 damaging abilities (of course, spellcasters can use these too, but that leads to showing that spellcasting cannot be a seperate, effective playstyle all by itself.)

To do this, and make two true playstyles as well as a gray area like the current school that I'm sure a lot of people would want to keep, I agree with a lot of what ArchDemon has proposed with a few key differences.

It would work slightly different from Biped multiclassing, in my suggestion. You would begin with the general Adventurer school, a more balanced and either/or playstyle than the current school. When you hit level 50, you begin to introduce the possibility of joining prestige schools. Primalist, Conquerer, and a Healing class. Perhaps Primal Regeneration school? Or just Dragon Regeneration? Something to fit into the lore of dragons being born from primal magic and also to seperate it from the biped healer school.

I say level 50 because that was the original requirement for the RoP and I think it makes the most sense. You spend the first half of your levels learning about the game and it's lore and testing weaker versions of the eventual playstyles you could enter.

As for checks and balances, so dragons cannot have "two GR style abilities and use them both," it's time to completely seperate the two playstyles.

A Primalist cannot use Gold Rage, and a Conquerer cannot use Gold Burst. (I'm going to go along with that name because I think its a perfect mirror to the other ability while adding a spellcaster flair.) Similar to how some abilities cannot cross over Biped schools, it would be the same with these high damage abilities. Both would use hoard as well, and they cannot be "masterable" abilities to eventually let a dragon use both regardless of school. This would allow for multiclassing and using all different playstyles without becoming too powerful. A Healer is just that, a healer. I'm under the impression that bipedal healers don't have too many "damaging" abilities, and more healing abilities, which should be the same for the dragon Regeneration school.

As for the adventurer school, (and this is the part people aren't going to like) there would be no "Gold Rage" or "Gold Burst." There would be other versions of abilities that would give you a taste of both spellcasting and melee without overpowering you. Perhaps early, weaker versions of those. Maybe called "Silver Rage" and "Silver Burst," implying that yes they are weaker but they are both available giving you an edge in combat. You upgrade to the other abilities when you specialize.

This would help remove gray area in playstyles, namely the gray area in spellcasting, and allow people to play how they want.

There could still be masterable abilities in each school. You would master the Tail Whip and Drain Strike in Adventurer school, because those are still useful regardless of class. Snarl, breath abilities, etc. would be used cross-class as well.

[Spyrioyo]

I think my biggest gripe right now with the current setup is the lack of variety. Melee has the most attractive playstyle (for me, at least) with the wider range of abilities and attacks. And even those are only swat this, breathe on that. The spells we have are very bland and not super damaging (at least in my experience. I can only imagine component hunting as a spellcaster in the current state.)

Now I'm normally drawn to spells and spellcasting in all MMOs I've played, but the dragon spellcasting just doesn't cut it.

The effects don't really vary the spells at all. And the spells are more like copies of each other with slightly adjusted damage and range. I've seen some biped casters in action, and it looks much more appealing than a dragon spellcaster. We also don't have enough spells to really be effective as a full spellcaster. Not counting the breat abilities, since all endgame scales have dragon's breath stats, melee have 9 damaging abilities (of course, spellcasters can use these too, but that leads to showing that spellcasting cannot be a seperate, effective playstyle all by itself.)

To do this, and make two true playstyles as well as a gray area like the current school that I'm sure a lot of people would want to keep, I agree with a lot of what ArchDemon has proposed with a few key differences.

It would work slightly different from Biped multiclassing, in my suggestion. You would begin with the general Adventurer school, a more balanced and either/or playstyle than the current school. When you hit level 50, you begin to introduce the possibility of joining prestige schools. Primalist, Conquerer, and a Healing class. Perhaps Primal Regeneration school? Or just Dragon Regeneration? Something to fit into the lore of dragons being born from primal magic and also to seperate it from the biped healer school.

I say level 50 because that was the original requirement for the RoP and I think it makes the most sense. You spend the first half of your levels learning about the game and it's lore and testing weaker versions of the eventual playstyles you could enter.

As for checks and balances, so dragons cannot have "two GR style abilities and use them both," it's time to completely seperate the two playstyles.

A Primalist cannot use Gold Rage, and a Conquerer cannot use Gold Burst. (I'm going to go along with that name because I think its a perfect mirror to the other ability while adding a spellcaster flair.) Similar to how some abilities cannot cross over Biped schools, it would be the same with these high damage abilities. Both would use hoard as well, and they cannot be "masterable" abilities to eventually let a dragon use both regardless of school. This would allow for multiclassing and using all different playstyles without becoming too powerful. A Healer is just that, a healer. I'm under the impression that bipedal healers don't have too many "damaging" abilities, and more healing abilities, which should be the same for the dragon Regeneration school.

As for the adventurer school, (and this is the part people aren't going to like) there would be no "Gold Rage" or "Gold Burst." There would be other versions of abilities that would give you a taste of both spellcasting and melee without overpowering you. Perhaps early, weaker versions of those. Maybe called "Silver Rage" and "Silver Burst," implying that yes they are weaker but they are both available giving you an edge in combat. You upgrade to the other abilities when you specialize.

This would help remove gray area in playstyles, namely the gray area in spellcasting, and allow people to play how they want.

There could still be masterable abilities in each school. You would master the Tail Whip and Drain Strike in Adventurer school, because those are still useful regardless of class. Snarl, breath abilities, etc. would be used cross-class as well.

I would like to see I like the way Aekaitz is saying and add on to it with specialized breath for the classes too with some classing-crossing ones.

[lightning claw]

Just wondering when we might see any of this cause i want to start a new hachie

[meepsa]

Just wondering when we might see any of this cause i want to start a new hachie

most likely not any time soon.

There's plenty of things that are higher priority now (Unreal move, T3 Revamp (and subsequently the future ones too)), and dragons as they are now aren't completely broken or anything, so it's more of a "why fix something that's not broken" thing right now.

I'm not saying it'll never come, I'm just saying that I personally think the team has other priorities right now.

[AmonGwareth]

Talk to the Team threads are not promises of implementation. They are simply an organized thread for discussion.

[LOVWYRM]

hey lighning,
I know you are a passionate melee fighter,
and you look for a new school?
There is a new school in my eyes: The uber- hybride.
With the changes of some dragon abilities and spell und breathes,
with the new t6 scales, some new techs and improved epic items- not to forget the wonderful dragon crystals
and the variety of trinkets you can buy in Augh-
the dragons got stronger than ever.
Though I was whining first about some "nerfs"(e.g. flameburst, snarl)
I now can say THANK You Amon and Velea for that changes.
I had to exercise for weeks (nealy 24/7^^) to find back to old shape- and then become stronger than before.
Its a lot of work (additional scales , claws) and try and error, to find to optimal equippment and tactics.
But its worth it.
So how about being able to take the whole fyakkie spawn- no matter which side of the wall in ED.
Or cleaning tunnel one, egg room, tunnel two with another dragon-pulling all there is- no matter if the pull has
Hieros, Harbinger in it- and no matter how many there are? And fighting 80% with epic spells (ahh- I love to use primal cast on Vulcano /Drulkar), spells tail whip and breathes.
And making crazy amounts of dmg (won`t tell how much- Amon might be listening^) only with that- using melee only to kill what is left on its feed. No GR required.
Then group can come in easily- and we can start fighting Queen. We change to melee then: Change some scales/claw- use different baubles and buffs. Voila! And melee damage is ..crazy too^^
And this is only 2 examples.
So why not try become an uber. hybride with your new hatchie.
Its not an easy way- but its possible- play a caster, a healer, a fighter- all in one.
Happy gaming

[ArchDemon]

I don't like the "semi-permanent" portion.

You are wrong that once Gold Rage was added, Dragon's had an IWIN button. For about a year after doing all the new quests for Gold Rage VII, I rarely used it. It ate hoard. Hoard was hard to get. It didn't turn in to an IWIN button until hoard started dropping extremely plentifully. Shield of gold was so expensive to use that for years, I simply never did use it. Even now I only occasionally use it when I remember, for certain epic boss pulls.

Dev's have hated gold rage ever since.

Well the whole new class or re-work the old class decision has been made and implemented. Gold Rage is severely nerfed, which is all the whole "new class" was really about anyway, doing 25% of the damage at 5x the old cost (1 use in the span it used to be useable 4 times). Dev's said they didn't want dragons to be a one trick pony. Other abilities would all get buffed to compensate. Fine. But the buffs to the other abilities doesn't compensate anything near the lost DPS. To make up for that, a typical Ravage attack would need to do 900-1100 per swipe x 5. The rest of the abilities would all need damage about doubled as well (including breaths).

So anyway, the change has been implemented to Gold Rage. And I feel the game has suffered for it. The coffin is almost nailed shut at this point...

Dragons really are just a biped in a big model that flies. The Dragon Adventurer class is probably semi close to battlemage, but the mage part being fairly weak. (but the melee part made up for, well it used to). Sure we at least get most abilities from quests, which is great btw. But bipeds end up with higher stats (things like health and strength), and it doesn't make sense for a dragon to have 3200 health. For adults the hp/level should be doubled, and for ancients it should be tripled. Then we might start to feel like dragons. But a typical biped gets to 4.5k health easily, and I've seen them at 5k (probably with some multiclassing). The typical maxed (gear with some classes as well) biped has about 1k more health than a dragon. Does anyone else not seriously see that as incongruous?

I have to agree with Arzel, messing with dragons at this point would be iffy at best. New Schools seem to me like it would just be more bad news in a new wrapper. And the existing DRAG school would just get broken even worse than it is now. No thanks.

i have to agree right here.. Dragons at most are just a biped with wings the players play istaria because you can be a dragon you cant balance a dragon normally they are a one beast army i did not realize this until fighting Eli in the rift with my lover we took him out with just two dragons.. i know bipeds will complain but id say give bipeds exp boosters in arnor form when they reach level 100 on there first school and then it would hekp em.. id say leave dragons alone and give more dragon related things and do not limit the players choice as ij give ancients at least 6k health so they feel they are a dragon and not soms Armored wall which we are.

[Calyndrell]

i have to agree right here.. Dragons at most are just a biped with wings the players play istaria because you can be a dragon you cant balance a dragon normally they are a one beast army i did not realize this until fighting Eli in the rift with my lover we took him out with just two dragons.. i know bipeds will complain but id say give bipeds exp boosters in arnor form when they reach level 100 on there first school and then it would hekp em.. id say leave dragons alone and give more dragon related things and do not limit the players choice as ij give ancients at least 6k health so they feel they are a dragon and not soms Armored wall which we are.

All I hear is whine, whine whine. Learn to play your ******** dragons... When you actually know what your doing you wojt feel weak.

And if dragons aren't as strong as pets why when I hear of people dual boxing epics it's always with a dragon?

[Spyrioyo]

All I hear is whine, whine whine. Learn to play your ******** dragons... When you actually know what your doing you wojt feel weak.

And if dragons aren't as strong as pets why when I hear of people dual boxing epics it's always with a dragon?

I am going to have to side with Calyndrell in some ways. I also all I hear is the same, make dragons overpowered in order to make them like a dragon. You need to learn to play your dragon or even any biped that is key. Power is not everything. Being the most powerful and most strongest doesn't make it like a dragon. Dragons are more than that they are smart, cunning, good in magic, etc., they are not just fighting and being a tank and destroying everything. Anyways, who cares who is strongest and all mighty because sometimes its the smarter one that wins and plays better and does better. So what if you can solo or dual boxing epics with a dragon it can make things less fun. It's always more fun to fight in a group. Furthermore bipeds and dragon are supposed to work together to fight there common enemy the withered aegis. This game is not about all dragon doing everything and bipeds doing hardly everything, no this game is about working together. Dragons should be unique and bipeds should be unique but still similar in a way to fight together against the withered aegis where one isn't extremely overpowered than the other.

[Calyndrell]

Oh forgot to mention.. You want more health make some health scales and put some tp into health... It's really that easy...

[Spyrioyo]

Oh forgot to mention.. You want more health make some health scales and put some tp into health... It's really that easy...

Or better yet use crystals to increase you health there is some good crystals out there too. If you plan well you should do fine.

[Alisto]

All I hear is whine, whine whine. Learn to play your ******** dragons... When you actually know what your doing you wojt feel weak.

And if dragons aren't as strong as pets why when I hear of people dual boxing epics it's always with a dragon?

Because making a combat capable dragon is a lot easier than making a combat capable biped. A dragon is good at lv100 with some quests done (You don't even need all of them), whereas a biped...The lowest rating biped I've managed to create and still consider it combat capable is at rating 160.

When I switch from my biped to my dragon I feel like a child trying to fill a monster's shoes.

I am going to have to side with Calyndrell in some ways. I also all I hear is the same, make dragons overpowered in order to make them like a dragon. You need to learn to play your dragon or even any biped that is key. Power is not everything. Being the most powerful and most strongest doesn't make it like a dragon. Dragons are more than that they are smart, cunning, good in magic, etc., they are not just fighting and being a tank and destroying everything. Anyways, who cares who is strongest and all mighty because sometimes its the smarter one that wins and plays better and does better. So what if you can solo or dual boxing epics with a dragon it can make things less fun. It's always more fun to fight in a group. Furthermore bipeds and dragon are supposed to work together to fight there common enemy the withered aegis. This game is not about all dragon doing everything and bipeds doing hardly everything, no this game is about working together. Dragons should be unique and bipeds should be unique but still similar in a way to fight together against the withered aegis where one isn't extremely overpowered than the others

I will address things in the order of bolded stuff.

1st bolded: Look around more, there are plenty of good suggestions. Maekrux has a massive post detailing damage numbers, cooldowns and whatnot for new dragon schools to where you can basically copy/paste the information.

2nd bolded: This is an MMO, and is constrained by the boundaries within which it was made. I cannot for example have my dragon wear a sock or do something adorable in order to stun my enemy. The game is also very old and it shows in the game mechanics/complexity. Furthermore, dragons are simply lacking in options. We're 'sorta good' at everything...which is okay, imo. Not the best/I think it could be easily improved, but I continue playing my dragon accepting that.

3rd: Currently it is the other way around (somewhat...Not saying dragons are TOTALLY useless and that bipeds are gods, but hopefully this gets the point across). If it's not okay for dragons to do everything and for bipeds to be near useless, is the reverse fine?

Last: Compare your last statement to your second sentence (the first bolded part). Then see what I've said about the 3rd bolded thing.

Oh forgot to mention.. You want more health make some health scales and put some tp into health... It's really that easy...

@Calyndrell - I'm going to make an example of an exaggerated situation to try and prove a point. Bear with me here. If dragons' health was set to one, it'd still be just as 'easy' to gain health as it was before. Doesn't mean it works :P Another one - killing Valkor is as easy as reducing his health to zero! One step, easy right?

You missed out on/glossed over a lot of the 'in between' parts :B

I'll end my post with a quote of Arch's post

do not limit the players choice

Imo this is the main problem - dragons are extremely lacking in choices, and the choices they can make don't make much of an impact.

[Calyndrell]

@Calyndrell - I'm going to make an example of an exaggerated situation to try and prove a point. Bear with me here. If dragons' health was set to one, it'd still be just as 'easy' to gain health as it was before. Doesn't mean it works :P Another one - killing Valkor is as easy as reducing his health to zero! One step, easy right?

You missed out on/glossed over a lot of the 'in between' parts :B

I'll end my post with a quote of Arch's post


Imo this is the main problem - dragons are extremely lacking in choices, and the choices they can make don't make much of an impact.

Your making a point without addressing what my post was actually getting at. And just to spell it out I will put it in plain English 'Why should dragons have more health?'

And if anything Alisto your the prime reason I don't think dragons need a boost. If a single well equipped dragon can dual box an epic then either the epic needs strengthening or the dragon needs weakening... And as nobody likes nerfs personally I would go with epic needs strengthening but then you get to the problem.. How strong is too strong? as I have come to see in horizons, The difference between a good player and a poor one is absolutely gigantic to the point that a single strong player can easily out perform two or three identically equipped adequate players. the truth is as simple as this Dragons can equal peds with magic and come decently equipped at melee with a single school (all of this requiring the correct equipment training etc). You want more capability it has to come at a price somewhere.

[Alisto]

Your making a point without addressing what my post was actually getting at. And just to spell it out I will put it in plain English 'Why should dragons have more health?'

And if anything Alisto your the prime reason I don't think dragons need a boost. If a single well equipped dragon can dual box an epic then either the epic needs strengthening or the dragon needs weakening... And as nobody likes nerfs personally I would go with epic needs strengthening but then you get to the problem.. How strong is too strong? as I have come to see in horizons, The difference between a good player and a poor one is absolutely gigantic to the point that a single strong player can easily out perform two or three identically equipped adequate players. the truth is as simple as this Dragons can equal peds with magic and come decently equipped at melee with a single school (all of this requiring the correct equipment training etc). You want more capability it has to come at a price somewhere.

Recall I did the duel boxing with one dragon and one biped :P And the biped was entirely naked for most of the time. The only thing my dragon provided was easy damage, the biped did everything else. And even then, bipeds can easily deal more damage than a dragon.

Dragons are pretty decent spellcasters in comparison, but they only really have damaging spells. They lack a wide selection of debuffs, CC and utility spells. So if you said the truth was that dragons can equal peds with magic damage wise, you'd be about right. I haven't tested a spell caster dragon in full t6 (devs? t6 for hatchies? Please? My only spellcaster is a hatchie), but Rinn's Drain Bolt already hits pretty hard.

I'd LOVE to pay the price for more options :D Give me more schools that provide more options and I'll gladly do a dreaded leveling grind for them.

Also epics do need buffs/changes, although I won't go on about that here.