Developer Discussion: Big Changes in Delta 120

[Deth]

Yea a lot of people, myself included fall into the lore that most caster followed Helian and most melee followed Lunus.

Thangorodrim Atanatari I am sorry to feel bad that the game is progressing but I do not remember, myself, them saying that. I could have missed it. I am sorry for your loose and hope something is done, but they have said that they will be sending out emails with codes once they are ready and think more of the old people return seeing there is progress again. So I would assume the same would happen with Unity. DO you not think it would be wise of them to, once they have figured out what they can and are going to do with unity to then send out emails to then with codes giving them a welcome back discount?

Have they not been fair and upfront with people so far? Working with everyone? Do you think they do not know that they have Unity people waiting and holding off resubbing while they see what happen to their toons? I for one do not think they will leave the Unity people out in the cold when they are ready to do what every they plan to with Unity.

[gopher65]

hmmm....we must have read different lore then. The stuff I read was pretty specific that helians were the more scholarly mage type dragons and lunus were more fighter types.

But then the way they have the quests setup there are only minor divisions between the 2 sects and the only real difference is in philosophy.

Yeah, everything I have read indicated this too.

[Deth]

They are mostly divided down those lines. It does not mean that there are not Melee Helians or Caster Lunus.

"The Lunus are typically the warriors of Dragon society; they felt that the other Living Races, especially the Humans, would eventually spell the downfall of the Dragons and wanted to take appropriate action to stop it. The Helians are more of the scholars and mages of Dragon society; they countered the Lunus by saying that they should take the lead in Istarian society, re-earning the reverence the other Living Races once had for them."

As I underlined above from the last lore released it does not say Just but typically and "are more of" showing that it is not ALL of a type follow one path. Any philosophy are going to have it's "oddballs" that do not fit into the mold.

[TelShyia]

Woooo-hooooo!! Thank you for the lowered larishaping, but of course after I have gathered a bazillion tricuts! Oh well. Nadia's prices lower! Great! Of course, you could adjust the t5 loot tables for things like blue vexs, toes, etc...
btw, what will be the 'footprint' on the new storage houses?
Telshyia

[Zexoin]

When will this patch be applied on the live shards ?

[JDexter]

I'm in no rush to see this on Live yet because of the stuttering/Graphics lag issue that some seem to be having.

It's much smoother on Live for me than it is on Blight.

[Ashuran]

Blast, Barrage, Tempest and Gust are different spells, I think... and therefore will be on different timers. No worries if you were sequencing Blast V, Barrage V, Tempest V and Gust V then, but if you were casting Gust V, then IV, then III, the shared timers are going to be a problem.

As for the lag, as long as they don't port over the updated client (and I thought they were still working the bugs out on it), that shouldn't come over to live.

It's excellent to see progress again. Can't wait for events to pick back up... if they do, I'll spring for one of the more expensive subscriptions.

[Fratricide]

I'm in no rush to see this on Live yet because of the stuttering/Graphics lag issue that some seem to be having.

It's much smoother on Live for me than it is on Blight.

Folks who know more then I please correct me if I'm wrong...
but, I believe there is a big difference between the Delta push and the Client upgrade that is currently running for those blight individuals. They can push the 119 and 120 delta's to live without pushing the client terrain update.

[Firebrand]

They are mostly divided down those lines. It does not mean that there are not Melee Helians or Caster Lunus.

"The Lunus are typically the warriors of Dragon society; they felt that the other Living Races, especially the Humans, would eventually spell the downfall of the Dragons and wanted to take appropriate action to stop it. The Helians are more of the scholars and mages of Dragon society; they countered the Lunus by saying that they should take the lead in Istarian society, re-earning the reverence the other Living Races once had for them."

As I underlined above from the last lore released it does not say Just but typically and "are more of" showing that it is not ALL of a type follow one path. Any philosophy are going to have it's "oddballs" that do not fit into the mold.

Game manual, page 7:



Official lore seems strict about factions and fighting styles.
I agree with this vision.

[Deth]

It was revised last year just before the sales by Amon here http://www.istaria.com/races.php when they loosened it up a little pit for those that wanted to be Lunus casters or Helian Melee.

[Death-knell]

Well no matter how you want to twist it.
typically = most representative of a specimen. Which means the typical helian is a scholar/mage.

The same race descriptions says the bulk of lunus are warriors.

Neither of those means "ALL" but the most common helian is a mage type and the most common lunus is a warrior.

And the lore from the quests backs that up every time they mention of helian or lunus.

[Steelclaw]

Folks who know more then I please correct me if I'm wrong...
but, I believe there is a big difference between the Delta push and the Client upgrade that is currently running for those blight individuals. They can push the 119 and 120 delta's to live without pushing the client terrain update.

The horizons.exe program and the content on Blight /can/ be separated from each other -- as demonstrated by running the Blight client on live and the live client on Blight. The two don't always go together.

[Steelclaw]

Woooo-hooooo!! Thank you for the lowered larishaping, but of course after I have gathered a bazillion tricuts! Oh well. Nadia's prices lower! Great! Of course, you could adjust the t5 loot tables for things like blue vexs, toes, etc...
btw, what will be the 'footprint' on the new storage houses?
Telshyia

The storehouse looks a lot like a T1 silo. There are a few of them in Crystal on Blight. (Good luck finding them if you look! )

The T5 loot tables could use some evaluation. Perhaps someone more patient than I can brave the wonky spawn on Blight and try to get a drop-per-mob ratio, then use the spawns on live to get a mob-per-time ratio and use the two to get a drop-per-time. That should give some indication of whether or not the changes were for the better, made no difference, or were extremely overkill.

This is the time to test, not after it hits live!

[Draygon]

This tangent concerning the Helian and Lunus factions seems to have run a bit astray, and as well is no longer on topic for this thread, which is intended for discussion of the latest Delta. Though I'm going to contradict myself in just a moment, I would recommend that if anyone wishes to continue on this subject, a new thread be created and advertised here, to keep from derailing this one any further.

(And having said that, I now invalidate myself by continuing to babble on about the same off-topic discussion. )

Although the game manual is not as explicit as to its source as the later racial summary that Deth linked to, it is likely that both were written from an Imperial point of view; an 'outsider' interpreting another culture with only a limited understanding. To such an individual, seeing dragon warriors calling themselves Lunus, and dragon mages calling themselves Helian, could easily lead them to believe the terms are synonymous.

Consider, instead, an alternate possibility; that the tactical, brute-force wielding dragons tend to be attracted to the ideals laid out by Lunus, while the intellectual, mystically-inclined dragons are drawn to the teachings of Helian. After all, there is a reason why a dragon does not choose a faction at birth, but that all hatchlings must first prove themselves in combat and in craft, sharpening both body and mind to learn where their true strengths lie.

And to bring us back to the original point of this digression, a faction is not a school or a class, but a lifetime choice. I would not support, nor do I see how it serves the game or the lore, to drastically alter a dragon's statistics and effectively lock them into the presumed combat style of their chosen faction, simply because it is a quick and easy way to create 'definition' between the factions. Such was the suggestion which launched this little segue into dragon politics.

Aaaand I think I've gone on long enough. For now.

[Kala]

I think helian Really needs a little boost now, to keep up with Lunus....

Helians are fine compared to Lunus. Spellcasters vs meleers is another matter entirely.

I'll be excited to see the new confectioner silos go live. Cooking takes up sooooo much storage space if you want any variety.

No kidding! I had more stuff than would reasonably fit into a house, but it took so many silos (and filled so little bulk in those silos).

I would also substantially decrease the armor of Helian's, but drastically increase their spell damage potential. Also, the intrinsic damage of dragon abilities and spells should be decreased, but the stats of each path should be customized so that the damage they do with their primary attack type is the same as it was before. Meaning that Lunas shouldn't be able to do much damage with spells but should do a lot of damage with physical attacks (very low focus/power, high dex/strength, and a large *current* T&C bonus (not base)), while Helian should be the opposite.

For the Armour thing I'd change helians so that Hoard, instead of giving an armour bonus, would give a spell damage bonus.

Ugh, no. Please no. This would make my dragon completely unplayable as she is now. I wanted a biped-friendly melee dragon. I do not want a biped-friendly caster dragon. Helians do NOT have to be casters. Seriously, if you want more defined caster/melee dragons, add schools...don't add abilities based on politics, please.

It is SO discouraging to see "Lunus = Melee" and "Helian = Caster."

...

I've stood on my soapbox for this countless times and felt all but defeated after hearing so little support for it--so I thank you, Draygon, for the encouragement!

It's a pet peeve of mine when people try and tell me I should be a caster dragon. I hate casting. Do you know that people still tell me I'm wrong and that helians are casters despite having explained over and over again that the lore says it's a political... hmm...entered rant mode. I'll stop now.

Anyhow...if they change it to force helians to be more caster-like, please add in a faction-changing quest. I'd rather hate naka than be forced to be a caster.

• Primal and Tooth & Claw Jewelry crystals will no longer drop as loot.

Nooo! I haven't collected them all yet!

• Technique “Adventure: Unamed III� now uses a Ruxus Heart instead of Myloc Hair.

Erm. I don't think I've ever seen a ruxus heart. Maybe I missed it...

• Withered Bane technique can now be applied to primal spells.

Yes, yes, I know. I said I'm not a caster. I still think this is good. ;p

• Lowered the uncut gem resource requirements for Tri-Cut Gems.

*dances!*

Taverns now give the Tavern Aura effect, which will be used in the upcoming Confectioner revamp.

Hopefully this will make the normal foods a bit easier to sell.

In preparation for the upcoming Confectioner revamp, the Imperial Building Commission has authorized the release of plans for the construction of Storehouses. These storage structures are designed to hold food related resources and therefore allow more than the normal number of stacks, but at a cost of storage capacity.

*dances!*

Relstaroth, the Master Lairshaper, has decreed after extensive testing, that Lairshapers throughout Istaria can now construct corridors and chambers with fewer resources than before and still be assured that their lairs will be safe from collapse.

Erm, I know I'm in the minority here, but... I didn't have an issue with the resource amounts before. And before anyone asks what tier I'm working on... Right now, it's T6. (One T6 smelter so far, almost done, waiting on the tri-cut fix.) And no, the reason I only have that much done ISN'T because it takes too long. I've been working on other things.

Bottlecaps from the Bitter Pickle are now stackable.

Shoot, you mean I DON'T have to go home after looting 300 caps now?

Icy, Fiery and Dire Wolves no longer have more than one skull to drop as loot.

What about the other mobs that drop three ears or four jawbones? Or beatsticks or ...? I can't remember the others right now.


Whew, that was a lot of things to respond to.

[Vahrokh]

As it is right now there just doesn't seem to be enough definition in the dragon classes IMO.

To be honest, you could not find a more different bunch than Lunus and Helians, it's like Warriors vs Mages.
Still we are all dragons, scales are scales even for an Helian (and I have seen them die fast enough with *worth* mobs hitting on them. Sure if you grind a zillion golems level 50 at level 100...).

We have one set of stuff, that is we are physically similar (just two factions), our AoE is based on us being hit to use a damage shield nor we have AoE stuns to mitigate what happens when getting hit.

If you want to strip Helians off armor, strip bipeds off stuns as well, and let them have only 3-4 damage spells. Ah, nerf them so that they are left with a token healing, like we have as well.

From
http://www.istaria.com/races.php

Subject: "general dragons"

"Their skin is covered with thick scales, offering better protection than the majority of the armors the Living Races use."

and (still not separating the two factions at all):

"Dragons are blessed with an unbridled strength, making them fearsome Warriors. Dragons also strike a balance between power and focus, making them solid practitioners of the arts arcane"

hmmm....we must have read different lore then. The stuff I read was pretty specific that helians were the more scholarly mage type dragons and lunus were more fighter types

At my time the lore was pretty simple:
Lunus = Bipeds are something lesser I can't be arsed to deal with.
Helian = Bipeds are something lesser I want to deal with and try teach them the basics.

I am deep, sickly deep, beyond deep (!) Lunus and AoE half of the time, or melee the other half of the time, at the switch of a scale set.
I have high focus and power too.
After all, it's one school we got and one dragon race.

Game manual, page 7:

The interesting bit: a lot of friends of mine are Helian.

Interesting bit 2: since the manual got published, a thing called ARoP came out and the official web site changed it. I'd look at the quest text about why this became possible.

And to bring us back to the original point of this digression, a faction is not a school or a class, but a lifetime choice.

Factions can be a lot of things, being of a faction is not a lifetime choice. Often it's opportunism, and switching sides is as old as history.

I wanted a biped-friendly melee dragon. I do not want a biped-friendly caster dragon. Helians do NOT have to be casters. Seriously, if you want more defined caster/melee dragons, add schools...don't add abilities based on politics, please.

Heh, I wanted a biped unfriendly caster dragon O_o. Look at the jokes of life

I'd rather hate naka than be forced to be a caster.

After all, it's the despisable naka that want us changed. Thru the years I learned that Lunus was my way (the kind nagas killed both my parents too >_< when I was young - the related lore post got lost with Tazoon forums), including in real life!

[Fratricide]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizons CS
• Technique “Adventure: Unamed III” now uses a Ruxus Heart instead of Myloc Hair.

Erm. I don't think I've ever seen a ruxus heart. Maybe I missed it...

I don't think ya missed it... I don't remember them either.. I remember ruxus skins or sommat but not ruxus hearts.... perhaps Ill have to go back to the hill and kill a few just to verify.

[Vengeance]

I like or am indifferent to most of the changes. However, I am troubled by the reduction in Fiery, Icey, and Dire wolf skull drops down to one per. I agree it makes complete sense that a single headed creature only drop one skull. However, loot drops in this game are for the most part are uninspiring to say the least. Why not consider changing it to a Paw or and Ear and limit it to one or two per mob. Trophys are one of the few nice things one can hope to get from a mob.

[gopher65]

I'm almost completely certain that Ruxus hearts were taken out of the game a few months before the sale to EII.

[Shargrym]

It was revised last year just before the sales by Amon here http://www.istaria.com/races.php when they loosened it up a little pit for those that wanted to be Lunus casters or Helian Melee.

Hopefully the choice between Lunus and Helian will remain a philosophy more than a game mechanic, though there are already some mechanics in place. Though I chose Helian as my path, I fight by tooth and claw and have done as much as I can scale-wise to benefit that style. It would be interesting to see Dragon classes that would allow one to specialize somewhat in spellcasting or melee regardless of philosophy.