Confectioner School

[Justa Mirage]

I see it this way Teto:

if 75% is the cap, and you get 5% per DP AFTER the first one, then you would have to rack up 16 DPs to hit the max cap for the "stat reduction" due to your DP. Each one lasts 5 minutes so 75 minutes later at maximum, your stat reduction will disappear.

Also, the devs said this is on a scaled curve. If you look at what generates the most DPs in the game, it is only high level instant kill attacks by epic mobs or maniacal debuffs from Satyr Isle or EB inhabitants. This means most of the DP generation will be at the highest end of the curve. Most lower level players are cautious about too many DPs and will be at the other end of this "curve" which means the penalty won't be as bad for them.

Hopefully, by reducing the death points by eating foods is as effective as ambrosia and will reduce the stat reduction time the next uneventful DP comes along.

Best word of advice after this is all put in place... DON'T DIE!
If you do, DON'T KEEP DYING! If a Fafnir, Reklar, or Valkor fight is going really bad, it's time to regroup.

And for the Devs... get rid of the "Insta Kill" attacks these mobs have. It's rediculous for any creature to deal out 11K - 17K of damage in one shot without us having some sort of protection. (The one ShadowDragon uses is negated if you are wearing the Shimmering Scale, but if you are a bi-ped healer tagging along... kiss your rear goodbye... Justa has been hit by that from SD and I think 13K damage is a bit excessive.)

[Teto Frum]

Justa: DON"T DIE

This is the be more careful reply. We're all here because we're gifted dieing is why we are here. Dieing is as much an ingrained conception as there is in MMOs, as mush of Istarian life as the pick.

After awaiting a couple weeks for guild hunt time that works for enough members you can do a named guy, i dont want to have to say "oh we got off to bad start, maybe next time all eight of us can get schedules together in real we'll try again."

This death penalty revamp seems way over the top in an attempt to make confectioner class over important. Make their stat foods stackable with potions and they never would have been nearly as useless. Im not against the confectioner revamp, not against a death point revamp, this death penalty change is way to severe, i'm sorry i feel this way trust me, nothing i'd rather do than spend the rest of my days in Istaria, but not just to craft.

I love the fact that now i can eat food and easily loose dps, instead of wasting days crafting. But i dont want too be a vegetable with 25% stats while im doing it. Death points can be amassed very quickly, when hunting for fun, not grinding lvls, not trophy hunting, not camping a named guy, but just lets see how far we can just walk through deadlands head on fun hunt, rezzers at the ready.

[gopher65]

This death penalty revamp seems way over the top in an attempt to make confectioner class over important. Make their stat foods stackable with potions and they never would have been nearly as useless. Im not against the confectioner revamp, not against a death point revamp, this death penalty change is way to severe, i'm sorry i feel this way trust me, nothing i'd rather do than spend the rest of my days in Istaria, but not just to craft.

You do realize that all you have to do is eat a little bit of food and your DPs will disappear right? Food is no longer just "subtract 4 minutes from your death penalty" like it was before. Each time you recall after a group whip just eat a meal and you won't have to worry about it. Simple.

[Teto Frum]

Sorry forgot one thing , I think your mistaken if you think young ones don't carry more death points than the elders. The thrill of getting big is much more of a drive than hunting for boutiful needless comps or xp in another class youll never use as main. I know i had more dps growing up than i ever do now, at least.

[Teto Frum]

Gopher maybe im wrong, but ive never seen food that shrunk a death penalty only points. Death penalties occurr upon death and even if ambrosia away your points you still have penalty. Is there new food to get rid of this new long term , high stat decrease death penalty is what im asking. Im not talking about recalling from hunt im talking about effects on toons being rezzed several times on a bad hunting experience.

[Icabald Percival dragon]

This is a response to Goriax's complaint that there is no food to be found on Order -- especially for dragons . . . . Drum roll please . . . . .

ANNOUNCING!

YE OLD PUB AND TAVERN OF APIA!
featuring the fine foods of Apia's Appetizers
OPEN TO ALL!


Come enjoy the benefits of dining in a fine tavern (sans furniture) at the home of the Elder Spirits in Apia. Foods currently prepared by Iron Confectioner Eissa (lvl 50) and Journeyman Nelgrag Longfoot (lvl 30). ES also has a third confectioner at level 32+ known as Galeana Twitchinstitch. We are looking for any other aspiring chefs to also contribute their goodies for all and sundry to enjoy.

Apia is a Journeyman confectioner's dream kitchen with kiln, mill, well, and oven open to all practitioners. The tavern keeper is looking for new tastes and flavors.

And, as the middleman for Journeyman Nelgrag Longfoot, I know the frustration of flying all over trying to find taverns who will accept Nelgrag's foodstuffs. I do believe that we would find more STOCKED taverns if the establishments were made open to ALL. Nelgrag has reported that enrollment in Fillet's School of Culinary Arts has grown tremendously of late, so, there are many chefs looking for places to place their wares. Also, I just relaized that I had better check with C`gan to find out where the other full service taverns are located -- I need more places to peddle Nellie's goodies. The one I know of is the T6 tavern in Last Stand. Need I say more?? Don't miss what it has to offer after that grand adventure (and then I won't have all of that 2-week old food returned into my vault for failure to sell) and each item is only coppers per serving. Such a Deal!

In all honesty, folks, Order does have a nice group of people who are out there doing their part to make this confectioner enterprise work, but it will always take all of us to participate for it to be a success. We need weary and bloodied adventurer's to eat our food. We need venues in which to sell it that are open to ALL and places in which to make it that are open to ALL. Some communities such as the ones C`gan mentioned, and Last Stand and Apia have set themselves up to serve as hubs for the food retail industry. It is a start It is FUN! It is also a great venue for Roleplaying

Eat! Drink! Be Merry! For tomorrow you will surely die and die and die and die . . . .
and Fillet's Army of Fastedious Hash Slingers will be there to revive you again.

Icabald Percival Dragon
GM of Elder Spirits
Marketing Manager for Apia's Appetizers

[LaughingOtter]

As far as I know the death penalty is not directly impacted by eating. What you can do, though, is take a break from fighting and use food to reduce the number of DP you have. Few DP, lower death penalty.

Your first death is still free, remember. If you've been hunting enough to get an hour-long death penalty, take a break. Head for a tavern, chat with folks while you eat, and by the time your death penalty expires you'll have taken off a good number of death points.

The death penalty in HZ is still very light in comparison to some MMOs. You can't go into XP debt (Vanguard) or lose levels (Final Fantasy) and you don't have to pay for gear repair (WoW). Death has to sting in order for confectioners to be viable, yes. I think that's perfectly reasonable. After all, monsters exist to make weaponsmith and armorer viable.

[Deth]

Yes after a full party wipe or if you are feeling you are getting to many DP from a fight have everyone recall go to your local tavern have a meal and talk about whats happened while you eat. Use the down time to relax and plan out your next fight. Keeping your DP low this way will help keep death penalty down.

[Roguar]

Best word of advice after this is all put in place... DON'T DIE!

So dont die.... is the answer..

This means most of the DP generation will be at the highest end of the curve. Most lower level players are cautious about too many DPs and will be at the other end of this "curve" which means the penalty won't be as bad for them.

I might be wrong but i received more DP's when i was younger.. since i did not know how to hunt or when to run...

[Kinto]

Hi all

Just wanted to check on the DP tiers because the details were a bit fuzzy, but will the DPs for people with adventure ratings over 120+ still be considered t6 or will they be tiered every 20 lvls like t1 - t5 ?

I was also wondering if the devs can put out a new detailed confectioner resource list like the one on the confectioner changes post but with the tiers included. I believe it would aid confectioners in stocking materials before the changes go live so that food could be prepared and put up sooner. I know they have to find the forms first, but it would cut down on harvesting time. It might also help smooth out the DP system transition, especially for those that mostly hunt.

Otherwise, the changes sound neat and worthwhile. I welcome the changes and I'm currently working on confectioner myself (which I was never going to lvl).

[Teto Frum]

I'll leave at this, and drop it, we will see how it plays. I play both vanguard and wow and have active accounts on both, this reads to me much more severe than either of those games your mentioning, no knowledge of other so i cant say. Everyone seems to think the answer is well you'll just have to take some down time and sit in a tavern and eat.

Thats not much of a game draw to me, people ask what did you do on Hz last night, "well we went after a near impossible kill for the fun of it, didnt go well , so we just spend a couple hours standing in a room eating." Cant wait to see everyone flocking to game to see that for themselves.

I was told that a disc revamp is needed to speed game up, now im told that everyone thinks we need more time not moving at all, disc speed for the crafters looks fine to me in comparison to the new adventure driven stand arround and eat proposition.

[Justa Mirage]

As far as I know the death penalty is not directly impacted by eating. What you can do, though, is take a break from fighting and use food to reduce the number of DP you have. Few DP, lower death penalty.

Your first death is still free, remember. If you've been hunting enough to get an hour-long death penalty, take a break. Head for a tavern, chat with folks while you eat, and by the time your death penalty expires you'll have taken off a good number of death points.

The death penalty in HZ is still very light in comparison to some MMOs. You can't go into XP debt (Vanguard) or lose levels (Final Fantasy) and you don't have to pay for gear repair (WoW). Death has to sting in order for confectioners to be viable, yes. I think that's perfectly reasonable. After all, monsters exist to make weaponsmith and armorer viable.

Don't forget hospital debt (1/2 XP until your debt is paid) "City of Heroes / villains"

Loss of valuable items / armor / weapons and a stat reduction (Asheron's Call)



I think the most DPs I ever got was 4 (maybe 5) and usually happen doing Fafnir or an unlucky rift run. Usually the rez for dragons (primal rebirth) removes 1 death point, and so does Superior Res. so there are other ways to keep from getting at least 1 death point.

When I fight, I know when the tables are turned and time to either take flight, or run like hell. Sometimes in that process I die. If it was a group fight, I will return or be rezzed. I don't blindly go running back so I can receive another death. Yes... sometimes being chicken keeps you from having to eat chicken to get rid of that death point.

[Roguar]

Yes after a full party wipe or if you are feeling you are getting to many DP from a fight have everyone recall go to your local tavern have a meal and talk about whats happened while you eat. Use the down time to relax and plan out your next fight. Keeping your DP low this way will help keep death penalty down.

I do have a tavern on my place and my guild uses it for dances and shuch but I do not think recall out of the ED to tavern to eat 18 types of food six times to go back out to "try again". We try to plan a guild hunt out to take on the epic mobs. Its a challenge just to get the members together to take out a Boss.. now its ooppp.. lets set in a tavern and talk about it.. sry have to go my time is up ect.. redo the hunt next month.. YEA .. that was fun....

[Velea]

I was also wondering if the devs can put out a new detailed confectioner resource list like the one on the confectioner changes post but with the tiers included.

I'm working on trying to pull together something like that right now, actually, Kinto. It's taking a while, and my brain keeps going fuzzy on me... but I'm working on it.

Just how "detailed" do you want? Right now what I'm doing for my own reference is a set of tables of processed items, and if the processed item requires you to make something first, that's marked out.

For example:
Caramel: Vanilla, Sugar

Both are in italics on the table I'm making because you have to make the vanilla and sugar first.

I thought once I pulled it together, I'd see if Amon is ok with it, and if so release a PDF version.

[Kinto]

Cool, glad to hear that.

Well I was just thinking raw resources with tiers. Other detailed information would be nice, but my main goal is for the list to aid confectioners in stocking materials. That way they are not stocking up on alot of resources for a tier of food they dont want.

I'm not sure anyone really knows how the demand is going to be for each tier, but I was guessing more of a demand for the higher teirs so maybe they could use the list to stock up more on those than the lower tiers. That is just a guess though. For example:

<raw material or plant name> (<type>) <tier>
Minnows (fish) t1

Well here's another thought: Seeing how I dont know how the meals are designed, you might could list say Tier 1 meals = <whatever resouces>. If the meals use mostly the resources in the teir then a list with tiers would be nice. If the use resources from multiple teirs then maybe a general tiered meal list.

<tier meal> = <materier> (<type>) <tier>, etc...

Just whatever you think would help confectioners know what to stock up on for their level. The tiered list would also let them know what they can and cannot harvest.

I'm not asking for formula specifics though. We can wait and find that out.

PS. Hope that jibberish makes sense.

[Zexoin]

I think most of the new ressources are not tiered

[Kala]

I believe that the new confectioner school does use the primary skill system, Deth. I haven't tested to be sure, but I seem to recall hearing that. So that would mean that yes, you would only get experience for actually cooking, not preparing.

This is what I've heard as well. I leveled most of confectioner "the hard way." That is, making food, not making pots and pans. It didn't seem to be that bad, to be honest... Then again, I'm the crazy person that liked lairshaping before most of the chamber requirements got reduced.

I'm working on trying to pull together something like that right now, actually, Kinto. It's taking a while, and my brain keeps going fuzzy on me... but I'm working on it.

There is currently a list of raw resources on the forums. I don't know how accurate it is, but it's what I based replanning my plot on. The thread is located here. The post I've frequently been referring to is here.

I also wound up having to make a silo map of my plot. I can't keep all these resources straight... and I'm loving every minute of it!

[velveeta]

I also wound up having to make a silo map of my plot. I can't keep all these resources straight... and I'm loving every minute of it!

heehee, me too.......the storehouses are gonna be a pain in the dupa....

[Krystine]

One of my native Blight chars was lvl 11 conf. I took her out today and made some new food to check xp. While it took a bit to collect the ingredients and refine them the xp from the finished food was very good. She made batches of 50 which required about half of her small pack full of a resouce. The only time consuming part was harvesing pepper. She is lvl 20 gatherer and pepper is a T2 resource so harvest was mostly a series of 1s. I posted in the patch testing section of forums so hopefully the tiers of resources will be addressed. The new formulas are quite a change from what we are used to but fun to make. I hope folks can be patient and actually try them before freaking out.

[LaughingOtter]

Well here's another thought: Seeing how I dont know how the meals are designed, you might could list say Tier 1 meals = <whatever resouces>. If the meals use mostly the resources in the teir then a list with tiers would be nice. If the use resources from multiple teirs then maybe a general tiered meal list.

The tier of a dish is determined by how many ingredients it has: (# of ingredients)-1=Tier. So, a T1 dish has two ingredients, a T6 dish has seven. The tier of the ingredients themselves doesn't matter.